2014 Colorado and Marijuana

Tony B wrote: The paranoid people are not in the line-ups... goes without saying, doesn't it? ? About your "all natural substances" stance: Is modern weed grown in modern strains really that "natural"? And what is the problem with a synthetic reproduction of that or analog? Should they be any less legal? They are probably purer (or would be if legalized and lab-made not bathtub/coffee mug made). Heroin and Coke have natural origins... LSD and MDMA are synthetic. Which would bother you more to hear your kid was using it? DMT and 5MEO-DMT are natural in their origin as well. Should extracting them be legally superior to manufacturing them? The whole "natural" thing kinda disturbs me, but perhaps there is a better argument than I have really heard from the pot-preachers.

Doc Ellis is my hero (He pitched a no hitter while high on pot).
Google: "Nobel prize" LSD
The myths are falling hard. Great stuff for our side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwFvH4Za_B4

Tony B wrote: The paranoid people are not in the line-ups... goes without saying, doesn't it? ? About your "all natural substances" stance: Is modern weed grown in modern strains really that "natural"? And what is the problem with a synthetic reproduction of that or analog? Should they be any less legal? They are probably purer (or would be if legalized and lab-made not bathtub/coffee mug made). Heroin and Coke have natural origins... LSD and MDMA are synthetic. Which would bother you more to hear your kid was using it? DMT and 5MEO-DMT are natural in their origin as well. Should extracting them be legally superior to manufacturing them? The whole "natural" thing kinda disturbs me, but perhaps there is a better argument than I have really heard from the pot-preachers.

Making anything illegal has never stopped people from using it ever, and the comparison of pot to acid heroin or coke is a ridiculous one. And yes pot is still grown naturally in a lot of cases...

taylor januskiewiecz wrote: Making anything illegal has never stopped people from using it ever, and the comparison of pot to acid heroin or coke is a ridiculous one. And yes pot is still grown naturally in a lot of cases...

Hi Taylor,
If you re-examine my position carefully, its context, and the question I posted, you might notice that you did not address any of them.
His stance was legalize everything "natural."
I found the idea that "natural" including heroin, but NOT legalizing LSD, MDMA, MDA, 2CB, 2CI, etc... would be silly. And in that I was pointing out what a silly designation "natural" is.
I was suggesting legalize it all, or at least the stuff that is extremely unlikely to kill(IE mushrooms, LSD, Peyote, Mescaline, 2ci, 2cb, etc...)

Tony B wrote: Hi Taylor, If you re-examine my position carefully, and the context of it, it is not the least bit ridiculous. His stance was legalize everything "natural." I found the idea that "natural" including heroin, but NOT legalizing LSD, MDMA, MDA, 2CB, 2CI, etc... would be silly. And in that I was pointing out what a silly designation "natural" is. I was suggesting legalize it all, or at least the stuff that is extremely unlikely to kill(IE mushrooms, LSD, Peyote, Mescaline, 2ci, 2cb, etc...) Second of all, comparing pot to acid is not ridiculous either unless you are suggesting that since lsd has had less of a detrimental effect on me, it should not be compared to pot, which makes me paranoid...

FYI: Heroin has to be manufactured opium is derived naturally from the poppy plant not heroin. On the other hand pot can be smoked straight off the plant in its natural state, And the lsd comparison is still ridiculous if I did lsd as much as I smoke pot I would loose my mind. And I would be willing to bet your were paranoid while on pot, but it was not a permanent side effect of having smoked pot. Look into the long term effects chronic lsd use....

That being said I agree that just because something is natural does not make it any healthier or any better for you than something synthetic.

taylor januskiewiecz wrote: FYI: Heroin has to be manufactured opium is derived naturally from the poppy plant not heroin. On the other hand pot can be smoked straight off the plant in its natural state, And the lsd comparison is still ridiculous if I did lsd as much as I smoke pot I would loose my mind. And I would be willing to bet your were paranoid while on pot, but it was not a permanent side effect of having smoked pot. Look into the long term effects chronic lsd use.... That being said I agree that just because something is natural does not make it any healthier or any better for you than something synthetic.

Long term chronic use of anything is BS, and you are arguing a point I never made. I said it had natural origins, and it does.
If you want to argue, please specify your point. Is it just to nit pick me or do you actually believe that "natural" vs derived vs synthetic matters at all.
The point I made was that the line drawn around "natural" is capricious, and you seemed to agree. Within the context of that argument, I don;t think I seriously needed enlightened...

Cobra venom is natural, and you can smoke poison ivy "straight off the plant in its natural state," but I DO NOT recommend it. There are frogs in the amazon you can lick, trip your balls off for 20 seconds, then die.

As for LSD use, I've "looked into" that (if you mean studied it in various contexts) quite a bit. As you probably know, the most considerable major contraindication of casual use is the possible early manifestation of a genetic predisposition to(no additional eventual risk, just earlier onset) a select set of psychiatric disorders, such as schizophrenia. There is more academic knowledge of that drug and it's mode of action than there is of most others INCLUDING modern pot, because it is a simple drug and is not loaded with so many and variable things. We are just coming to understand the various CBD's and such in pot even now.
But the compendium of studies on actual casual users of LSD have not given any statistically detectable indication of lower quality of life or consequential risk, beyond antecdotes of making a bad decision while on it... Casual users tend to have longer lasting relationships, lower divorce rates, higher educational achievement, higher income, more career advancement, higher IQ, no more common nor severe health problems, etc... than the non-user group.
To Note, I do not advocate the drug for anyone, I simply point out that if you are looking for consequence to casual use, you won't find it beyond anecdote. I so I asked - if Pot should be legal, what about the synthetics?
Now... chronic ACUTE use of any drug is going to hurt you. We all know that. Esp Nicotine, Caffeine, and Alcohol.

Check out Nutt's harm index some time!
PS - to make that easy... Nutt's Harm Index

Tony B wrote:PS - to make that easy... Nutt's Harm Index

Yes, this study and many others show that "naturalness" and harmfulness (for intoxicants) are essentially uncorrelated. Hence, the "legalize it because it is natural" argument doesn't hold up very well. There are much better reasons to support legalizing a given substance.

They attack us. Time to return the favor.

Prohibitionists think we should lose our freedom family & fortune because of pot; and feel we should be OK with them thinking that.

Prohibitionists especially the intelligentsia can't imagine they were lied to and have been wrong all their lives

Prohibitionists think that the Legalization crowd are the ones that are lying.

Prohibitionists are condescending judgementalists - every perceived personality flaw they see; is somehow related to pot.

Prohibitionists will be lumped in with the temperance league when it comes to smarts. Only they will be considered even stupider. The temperance league were right on a few points. Like violence and physical damage

Prohibitionists are afraid of legalization because when they don't toke up with their friends; they will know that they were talking behind their backs and were Judgmental Condescendings

Prohibitionists are terrified at the possibility that Pot is a (performance / life) enhancing herb. They do like the falsehood that Pot dumbs peoples senses

Prohibitionists are sure they know more about Cannabis than someone that has spent their whole life with the Marijuana plant.

Prohibitionists will say there are downsides to everything. "NAME THEM" I bet you can't name any.

Prohibitionists try and switch the topic to other drugs when they don't have a leg to stand on when discussing pot.

Prohibitionists have no heroes (witness Ted Cruz) just liars, fibbers and stupid's. Our side has thousands of heroes. Marc Emery is my favorite

Prohibitionists think everyone that doesn't agree with them is trolling
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.
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Power Stone. Every Great Shaman has 1 or more.

i dont think you are selling your cause very well at this point Pectate, unless you are trolling.

David Sahalie wrote:i dont think you are selling your cause very well at this point Pectate, unless you are trolling.

And what would you suggest. I'm open to suggestions.
Prohibitionists think everyone that doesn't agree with them is trolling

mr. swamp,

you are basically preaching to the choir on this thread. Tony is for legalization, but doesn't smoke. I am for legalization and do smoke daily (after work) and generally dont smoke while climbing. Neither one of us are 'vibing' (80s stoner talk) with your religious fervor.

CO is the second place in the world to allow sale of MJ to anyone. i didn't think 'merica would see this level for another 10 years.

So while I agree that stoners have had a difficult time in the failed war on drugs, this is a new day. rejoice!

I don't know what the hell Doug is talking about but he's got my full support. His posts are strange and mysterious and he's way more charismatic than anyone else here.

Tony, you are so bothered by this stoner religon and yet you yourself have a religon, Libertarianism, that you like to lecture people about. Maybe everyone should let go of these ideologies/indetities and seek unity. Jah will provide.

MC Poopypants wrote: Tony, you are so bothered by this stoner religon and yet you yourself have a religon, Libertarianism, that you like to lecture people about. Maybe everyone should let go of these ideologies/identities and seek unity. Jah will provide.

Sorry to disappoint you, but if it is based on facts, logic (even if inductive) and principle it is not a religion. There are no rites, rituals, sacred text, elements of faith, or historical charismatic leaders. The hallmarks of a religion are absent in my statements.

I recall stating facts about drugs and positions on ballot measures and actual law and policy, but nothing about 'enlightenment' or good vs evil, nothing about greater good, nothing about sacred texts, no leaders, etc. Just plain ole' policy talk.

So I'm trying to recall when I lectured anyone on this thread about Libertarianism. Can you please quote one line where I did? That's officially a challenge, and I'm calling you out for being full of shit in the mean time. If I did, then you'd be right and I was pontificating, but I don't think so.

Whoa bud, take it easy. Come in here all yelling at people like your their dad and shit. You prohibitionists are all angry and shit just 'cause we won the war! This is big time, bigger than Honnolds fan club. This will change the course of the nation. I've easily spent $50,000+ over the years to support the cause. You? Nothing. Just come in here pooping all over the celebration with your - quit the bullshitting, quit bullshitting!

How's that for some bullshit?

MC Poopypants wrote:Whoa bud, take it easy. Come in here all yelling at people like your their dad and shit. You prohibitionists are all angry and shit just 'cause we won the war! This will change the course of the nation. I've easily spent $50,000+ over the years to support the cause. You? Nothing. Just come in here pooping all over the celebration with your - quit the bullshitting, quit bullshitting! How's that for some bullshit?

Pretty good bullshit. It stacks up to a mound that I doubt you could climb even with aid gear. Pack some supplemental oxygen and hire a porter.

You are wrong on all accounts on everything you presume about me.

Glad pot got legalized at the state level in 2 states. That is good news, but too bad you don't realize that the fight, let alone the war, is not over yet.

MC Poopypants wrote:Whoa bud, take it easy. Come in here all yelling at people like your their dad and shit. You prohibitionists are all angry and shit just 'cause we won the war! This is big time, bigger than Honnolds fan club. This will change the course of the nation. I've easily spent $50,000+ over the years to support the cause. You? Nothing. Just come in here pooping all over the celebration with your - quit the bullshitting, quit bullshitting! How's that for some bullshit?

I've spent a ton of CASH supporting the cause as well.
Most went to people who were friends of mine. There is no doubt that the Marijuana people spent Trillions to win this war. Every penny was worth it to legalize such a tremendous plant.

What's not to stone t-shirt. All the little animals love it.

Tony,

I apologize for what I said, I'm just messing around. I am not trying to be accurate or honest I'm just playing. But c'mon, you're in here debating Cheech and Chong about stoner religon and you think it's going to be any different?

Without having met you I've got a good amount of respect for you based on your demeaner here and tend to agree with your point of view most of the time.

This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.

D.Buffum wrote:The more I read what the pro-pot activists on this thread have to say, the more uncomfortable I become with the end of prohibition. ... But the idiocy of the propaganda in support makes me uneasy about the long-term effects on users. For those people who argue that there are no negative effects and that it's some kind of cure-all, I ask, "what the hell have you been smoking?"

Remember that most of us are intelligent people who either (or both) hold points of view like yours, or simply stand on principle that it's a person's own business what they do to themselves and question why anyone is regulating it. After all, the support for legalization is more than double the number of people who use it, and several times the number of people who use it on a regular basis.

Unfortunately, it is often the case that the nuttiest people are the loudest. Moderate people got shit to do...

Doug Pederson SpectateSwamp wrote: I've spent a ton of CASH supporting the cause as well. Most went to people who were friends of mine. There is no doubt that the Marijuana people spent Trillions to win this war. Every penny was worth it to legalize such a tremendous plant.

Oh, there is a lot of doubt. As per the point above, I think that you are very, very bad at math if you think that. Maybe a few billion, or even tens of billions over the decades, but trillions is a laughable number.

swamp and poopy,

you guys are making stoners look stupid. you aren't helping.

VaGenius wrote:I'd had better weed in the green room of the 930 club in DC with some tour buddies.

What band? Just curious.