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Anything wrong with this PAS?

Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25
bearbreeder wrote:and if you are taking factor 2 falls on a tether, whack yourself on the side of yr head with that #6 camalot note the impact force of the first drop is UNDER 6 KN ... this is a very survivable drop ... using slings/PASes usually put forces in excess of the 12KN max impact force that the UIAA mandates for dynamc ropes
I realize this will make me look dumb but in the interest of some "in the field" data: I once took a factor 2 fall on a 2ft dyneema sling attached to a bolt. Yes dumb. But I didn't die. Lucky? Or maybe there is something else in the system not accounted for in drop tests (the soft mass being one of them)?
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
VaGenius wrote: Chain Reactors are fourteen bucks at the moment on this site in the Dirtbag Deals. By my math, that's around the same cost as a value meal at Del Cockroach for two and a couple of Pabst tallboys. If it's priced in the same range as a weak buzz and instant diarrhea that only lasts a few hours max, maybe something that you trust your life to for a few years could be considered 'worthwhile'. But we all have our own definitions for those kinds of words.
And some of us live in other countries where shipping doesnt make such "deals" worthwhile

A sling will serve the same purpose as a PAS just fine ...

Can you come up with an example of anything one can do with a PAS that they cant with a knotted sling/cord

Arguing over PASes on the intraweb .. cause thats whats REALLY matters in climbing

;)
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
bearbreeder wrote: Can you come up with an example of anything one can do with a PAS that they cant with a knotted sling/cord
Two chicks at once.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
VaGenius wrote:Where do you live? Don't get me wrong, the DIY Slovak method makes sense when you're doing things on the narrow margin. Over-engineering some horseshit 'improvement' because you think you're re-inventing the wheel smacks of too much time on your hands, and a corded solution is going to be bulkier than nylon or dyneema chains, period. In the US, at a price of fourteen bucks, when a single helium wire gate costs $12, $14 for a well made anchor chain is a bargain. Argue that at your own peril, Outlander! :)
the "knotted" solution is one which has been used for a LONG LONG time ...

in fact a simple piece of cord terminated by knots in the end is used by cavers and other such folks ...

british-caving.org.uk/rope/…

knotted slings have been used for ages even before there were "PAS"es ... and they still are ..

most guides i see around dont use or carry PASes, they dont need to, they just use the slings/cord they have on em

the PAS is the over engineered "horseshiet" improvement that you proudly proclaim ... it doesnt do ANYTHING that a simple knotted sling or cord cant do ....

again name me one example ...

whether you choose to use one or not is totally your choice ... i bought one years ago to see what all the fuss was about, used it for years ...

it works fine, but it doesnt do anything a sling/cord cant do

;)
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Ryan Watts wrote: I realize this will make me look dumb but in the interest of some "in the field" data: I once took a factor 2 fall on a 2ft dyneema sling attached to a bolt. Yes dumb. But I didn't die. Lucky? Or maybe there is something else in the system not accounted for in drop tests (the soft mass being one of them)?
could you elaborate on the circumstances of the fall?

these drop test dont take into account the squishy mass of the body or the harness being in the system ...

also which dyneema slings in particular the width .... theres a large variation between dyneema slings ...

i promise not to whack you with a #6 camalot quite yet

;)
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
VaGenius wrote:This is my last post here, I've got rational things to do with my time, but here goes: PAS vs Knot As Useful Sling Light vs heavier Many options to get comfortable length vs a couple of knots, bad odds they'll be comfortable in every situation. Flat webbing sits close and tight to the harness vs cord hanging down is bound to snag Three ways vs hockey night with the fellas In all seriousness, since I wondered where you were from I took a look at your contributions. Anyone who's got time to post fifty pics detailing the penberthy and the proshaska-hedden is going to argue knotted cord past any measure of patience I have. Do your thing. You probably have a lot of contact with guides who influence your thinking on things. I avoid most guide "tricks" and practices like the plague. I know a couple of good guys who are local guides, and a dozen other spastic colons who are best avoided like multiple-user Carmex. The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire. Discuss-
Thats your argument???

That i put up a thead on how to prussic up without cords/sligs using the penberthy and that its has something to do with the holy roman empire????

Your "weight" argument shows how little youve researched it ..

A knotted 44" metolius sling as i showed in my prior pic weights 86g .... The PAS weights 93g

For all practical purposes there NO DIFFERENCE in weight between a knotted nylon sling and a PAS

As to "flat webbing" argument ... The PAS is made of not exactly supper thin WEBBING loops ... As is your chain reactor ....

Ive used cord, slings and PASes as personal anchors ... And the webbing is around the same as a PAS

Your the one claiming a simple knotted sling or cord is an "overemgineered piece of shiet"

Again you cant name me ONE thing a PAS can do that a knotted sling or cord cant

;)
Ian Stewart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 155

I have a PAS and used to use it all the time, despite it always getting in the way. I've since ditched it and don't see a reason to ever go back. Plenty of times I used it I thought "man I wish this wasn't here", but on the contrary I've never been without it and thought "I wish I had a PAS".

TYJ1981 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 0
bearbreeder wrote: Thats your argument??? That i put up a thead on how to prussic up without cords/sligs using the penberthy and that its has something to do with the holy roman empire???? Your "weight" argument shows how little youve researched it .. A knotted 44" metolius sling as i showed in my prior pic weights 86g .... The PAS weights 93g For all practical purposes there NO DIFFERENCE in weight between a knotted nylon sling and a PAS As to "flat webbing" argument ... The PAS is made of not exactly supper thin WEBBING loops ... As is your chain reactor .... Ive used cord, slings and PASes as personal anchors ... And the webbing is around the same as a PAS Your the one claiming a simple knotted sling or cord is an "overemgineered piece of shiet" Again you cant name me ONE thing a PAS can do that a knotted sling or cord cant ;)
One thing a sling can't do that a PAS can is get me to use it when a PAS is laying right next to it. For me when I am cleaning anchors I prefer to use a PAS so fuck off and go use what you want. Like you said its the same exact thing as a sling and you can use the PAS as a sling if you really want to. I know everything you are saying about a sling but I prefer to use a PAS for convenience and personal preference, so there are two things I just listed for you.

;)
Ryan Nevius · · Perchtoldsdorf, AT · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 1,832
TYJ1981 wrote: One thing a sling can't do that a PAS can is get me to use it when a PAS is laying right next to it. For me when I am cleaning anchors I prefer to use a PAS so fuck off and go use what you want. Like you said its the same exact thing as a sling and you can use the PAS as a sling if you really want to. I know everything you are saying about a sling but I prefer to use a PAS for convenience and personal preference, so there are two things I just listed for you. ;)
You didn't answer the question, but sure did come off as a jerk. Bear's point is that neither is "better;" it's subjective. Can this thread die now?
Hmann2 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 30

Personal recommendation is to use 2 quickdraws when single pitch climbing, and when your multi-pitch climbing use the rope your tied to and tie a clove hitch or overhand knot, and a daisy chain for your second point.

Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25
bearbreeder wrote: could you elaborate on the circumstances of the fall? these drop test dont take into account the squishy mass of the body or the harness being in the system ... also which dyneema slings in particular the width .... theres a large variation between dyneema slings ... i promise not to whack you with a #6 camalot quite yet ;)
Sure. We were rapping off the petit grepon in RMNP. There is this one rap station that is two bolts (new station) about a foot or so beneath a slung boulder (old station). I was clipped into one of the bolts with one of those 24" Mammut dental floss slings (not sure the exact diameter but its thin). The other bolt I was clipped into with a 48" sling as a backup IIRC. I stepped up to unsnag the ropes from the top of the boulder (standing above the bolts with the 24" sling almost taut), slipped, and got caught by the 24" sling on a single bolt. I definitely felt it but obviously it was nowhere near 12 kN obviously.

Could have been bad...I figured it was the "squishy mass" factor or some other variable.
TYJ1981 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 0
bearbreeder wrote: Again you cant name me ONE thing a PAS can do that a knotted sling or cord cant ;)
Again you still are avoiding the question and won't tell us what country you live in where PAS cost hundreds of dollars and not the price of a 12 pack like everywhere else in the world.... So what country do you live in?

;)
Ian Stewart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 155
TYJ1981 wrote:Again you still are avoiding the question and won't tell us what country you live in where PAS cost hundreds of dollars and not the price of a 12 pack like everywhere else in the world.
He never said "hundreds", he said "i simply could no longer justify spending 30$ on a single use item". Retail on a PAS is $33, Chain Reactor is $21, so with shipping that's easily $30 in many countries.

Also, the cost of a 12-pack varies dramatically across the world.
Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
TYJ1981 wrote: Again you still are avoiding the question and won't tell us what country you live in where PAS cost hundreds of dollars and not the price of a 12 pack like everywhere else in the world.... So what country do you live in? ;)
He's from Bolvangar, don't piss him off.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Ryan Watts wrote: Sure. We were rapping off the petit grepon in RMNP. There is this one rap station that is two bolts (new station) about a foot or so beneath a slung boulder (old station). I was clipped into one of the bolts with one of those 24" Mammut dental floss slings (not sure the exact diameter but its thin). The other bolt I was clipped into with a 48" sling as a backup IIRC. I stepped up to unsnag the ropes from the top of the boulder (standing above the bolts with the 24" sling almost taut), slipped, and got caught by the 24" sling on a single bolt. I definitely felt it but obviously it was nowhere near 12 kN obviously. Could have been bad...I figured it was the "squishy mass" factor or some other variable.
was it sheer vertical? ... if it was a bit slabby, that woudlnt technically have been a "factor 2" ...

i also assume there was no knot in the sling?

personally i suspect the deadly dyneema argument is a bit of hysteria as the tests done generally arent realistic ... ie squishy mass, with a harness ... both of which will absorb energy

it still isnt good practice to go take whippers on static materials of course ... when i need to step above a bolt i tie in quickly with the climbing rope and clip that to the bolts or go on belay...

thanks for sharing ... now where my #6 camalot

;)
NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60
VaGenius wrote:This is my last post here...
LOL! Promise?
TYJ1981 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 0
Ian Stewart wrote: He never said "hundreds", he said "i simply could no longer justify spending 30$ on a single use item". Retail on a PAS is $33, Chain Reactor is $21, so with shipping that's easily $30 in many countries. Also, the cost of a 12-pack varies dramatically across the world.
But its not single use! You can also use your PAS as a sling, to build an anchor, extend your rappel device and anything else just like you would a sling. So your problem with the PAS is that it weights 10grams or whatever more than a sling? Thats a funny thing to get all worked up about. Do you also get upset when people dont use the same exact brand of sling as you do? Provide me ONE reason why I could not use my PAS as a sling!?

Also bearbreeder still is refusing to say what country he is from. Interesing....

;)
TYJ1981 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 0
Seth Kane wrote:PAS undeniably beat slings in one thing: marketing. I mean you're paying $30 for the functionality of a $6 sling with knots in it.
True, but can you tie six knots in a regular length sling to have as many clip in points as the PAS provides you instantly?

Lol I would love to see that...
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
TYJ1981 wrote: But its not single use! You can also use your PAS as a sling, to build an anchor, extend your rappel device and anything else just like you would a sling. So your problem with the PAS is that it weights 10grams or whatever more than a sling? Thats a funny thing to get all worked up about. Do you also get upset when people dont use the same exact brand of sling as you do? Provide me ONE reason why I could not use my PAS as a sling!? Also bearbreeder still is refusing to say what country he is from. Interesing.... ;)
well little troll who signed up on nov 28th, 2013 and has no relevant posts ...

hmmmmm

but ill answer you seriously...

you can do ALL that with a sling ... for 1/3 the price little one

can you name me ONE thing that you can do with a PAS that you cant with a sling ...

what people use is up to them

heres one thing that you generally "cant do with a PAS" that you can easily do with a sling, at least on the thinner ropes that are so popular these days .... friction knot a rope ... which is a pretty important consideration in self-rescue scenarios where you may have very little gear left at the belays on long pitches, your "PAS" being one of em

mammut 8mm phoenix half rope with PAS "friction" knot

mammut 8mm phoenix half rope with nylon sling "friction" knot

you should know this if you practice your basic skills, which as an experienced climber, and not a troll, you do of course

as to where i live ... you should know that by now ... the land of squishy bears !!!

;)
Ian Stewart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 155
TYJ1981 wrote:So your problem with the PAS is that it weights 10grams or whatever more than a sling? Thats a funny thing to get all worked up about. Do you also get upset when people dont use the same exact brand of sling as you do?
Don't put words in my mouth. If you read my actual opinion on the matter (above), I don't like using a PAS because I find it gets in the way. Unless it's the rope, I don't like having anything permanently attached to my belay loop/tie-in points. I anchor in with the rope 95% of the time, and use slings for the rare occasions they're more convenient. I don't give a shit if you use a PAS; to each their own.

TYJ1981 wrote:Provide me ONE reason why I could not use my PAS as a sling!?
You could use your PAS as a sling. Have fun.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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