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Tagging gear

saguaro sandy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 140

125

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

Okay, here is my answer and reasoning.

The leader is 120 feet above the anchor. There is 80 feet of lead rope and haul line remaining.
The leader cannot tag on the haul line alone since that would leave him 40 feet short of reaching the gear. He does have 80 feet of lead rope left though.

For the second to retain the end of the haul line he could completely untie it from the haul system and clip it into the loop of the remaining lead line.

There is 80 feet of lead line left, creating a 40 loop.

There ya go, 40 feet added to the 80 feet of remaining haul line equals 120 feet. The leader can now tag up more gear.

I'm trying to work out how far the leader can tag if he pulls up all the lead rope slack and unties from his end of the rope and connects it to the haul line.

Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669
Mark Hudon wrote:I'm trying to work out how far the leader can tag if he pulls up all the lead rope slack and unties for his end of the rope and connects it to the haul line.
thats where i thought you were heading with this. 150?
Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

It's one solution but not the solution I conceived. I was thinking of a more quickly done solution.

Still though, if you had a couple bomber pieces nearby, pulling up all the lead line slack and untying would be quick, efficient and safe.

Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669
Mark Hudon wrote: pulling up all the lead line slack and untying would be quick, efficient and safe.
you can be tied in on a bight to stay on belay.
Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

Oh, hey, this is interesting.

The leader pulls up all the slack and unties from the end of the rope. Let's say he's 150 feet from the anchor. He ties the remainder of the lead line (50 feet) to the end of the haul line (200 feet). So now he has 250 feet of rope.

The second, 150 feet down from the leader, ties the gear onto the now extended haul line. Since the second can't let go of the very end of the haul line, the available cord is not long enough to reach the leader! The Leader is 150 feet away but he would need 300 feet of rope to get the gear and not have the second let go of the end of the haul line.

Am I right?

divnamite · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 90

so, did i get the right answer? Mark, what's the prize? A bag of coffee will do!

saguaro sandy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 140

Max 150

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420
saguaro sandy wrote:You do have 300ft!
How?

You're 150 feet away from the anchor, you have 50 feet of lead rope remaining, and 200 feet of haul line. 250 feet.
Ryan N · · Bellingham, WA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 195

Damn Mark. I just spent 30 min with Saguaro Sandy and a rope to figure out the same answer.

Thanks for the early morning brain teaser. It became much easier to visualize when we used a couple short lengths of rope.

EDIT: WE TRIED 175 BUT IT WAS TOO MUCH I IMAGINE THE ANSWER IS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 150 AND 175 AS WE STILL HAD ROPE LEFT AT THE 150 MARK.

ALSO THE WAY WE DID IT YOU WERE NEVER OFF BELAY AND NEVER HAD TO BUILD AN ANCHOR.

William Sonoma · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 3,550

Killer thread Mark. This is a great (relaxed also) way to learn. Got any more fun questions that will force us to visualize our/a setup, our techniques, and problem solve, etc?

Thanks Mark for furthering my learning lightly.

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

So far, even with pulling up all the slack and untying from the anchor, you can only be 135 feet from the anchor.

At 135 feet away you will have 65 feet of lead rope left over. Add that to the 200 feet of the haul line gives you = 265 feet. 265 feet divided by 2 (the second can't let go of the end of the haul line) equals 132.5 feet.

So that's my final answer. Without untying from the end of the lead rope, 120 feet is the furthest from the anchor you can be and still tag up gear.

Untying from the end of the lead line gives you only 15 more feet!

saguaro sandy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 140

We are gonna recreate this outside too!

divnamite · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 90

133.33? 400 feet of rope, divided by 3.

rocknice2 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 3,847
divnamite wrote:133.33? 400 feet of rope, divided by 3.
Plus double the distance to the first pro.
Attach a hammer or water bottle to the leader rope to make it come down after.
Ryan N · · Bellingham, WA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 195

Mark, pull up all the slack in the lead line then tie in with a bight, now untie your lead rope. You never come off belay. Attach lead an haul ropes together. Lower rope. We were able to get 150 ft out from anchor with a little bit of slack still in rope.

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

I think dvinamite is correct. Given 400 feet of free rope, the furthest you can be from the anchor and still tag gear is 133.33 feet.

Ryan, you are 150 away from the bottom anchor. You secure yourself right there and untie. You have 50 feet remaining. You tied that to the full 200 feet of the haul line so now you have 250 feet. The second ties the gear in as high as he can on your 250 feet of rope, You are 150 feet up so there is also 150 feet of rope down. He ties in the gear at 150 feet, but that leaves only 100 feet before the second has to let go of the very end of the haul line. FAIL!

Ryan N · · Bellingham, WA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 195

Mark, your explanation seems right. Not sure how with my ropes I got 150ft? It was a fun exercise though. What's tomorrow's riddle?

Josh Janes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2001 · Points: 9,954

Ahem. *cough cough* I'd just like to point out the second response on this thread...

Wes Goulding · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 10

Good one. 400/3=133 is correct, but my partner would just let me climb another 20' by untying two 20' cordaletts and attaching them to the end if the haul line. :)

Wes

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Big Wall and Aid Climbing
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