Gaining endurance with only a small steep woody

Ian Stewart wrote:Great post JCM! If you were able to onsight it the first time, you obviously have the physical "endurance" to do it again. But the second time you fumbled your technique somewhere and failed...maybe spent too much time fiddling with a poor placement, or not resting enough, who knows. Nobody is "over analyzing" or judging you to "feel superior", they're just calling it as it is. A grade doesn't mean shit if your technique isn't up to par for the climb, and something like slab technique doesn't translate to overhang technique, where efficiency is key. I have more strength or physical endurance than many of my climbing partners, some of whom probably couldn't even do one pullup anymore, but they walk up things that give me trouble because they know what they're doing. Similarly, I climb with guys who boulder WAY harder shit than me (including long endurance traverses), yet when we hop on a rope we're climbing about the same grades since I've spent more time clipping bolts and learning how to do it efficiently (which is something you never do on a boulder).

Indeed, Thanks JCM, I understand my gear techniques need some improvement. Its no plug and chug around here. I need to read up on ARCing. The idea of recovering on an overhanging wall is abstract to me, and that alone is part of the problem perhaps... I've predetermined that it cant be done even on good holds. I'm sure it leads to less than ideal breathing patterns and anxiety when I'm pumping out above my last piece. Thanks for elaborating, its what I needed, rather than just telling me I likely have bad technique. Good stuff.

Ian Stewart wrote:Great post JCM! If you were able to onsight it the first time, you obviously have the physical "endurance" to do it again. But the second time you fumbled your technique somewhere and failed...maybe spent too much time fiddling with a poor placement, or not resting enough, who knows.

Well said, thanks.

Adam Paashaus wrote: ...Seriously, I am just looking to gain endurance, not be over-analyzed and judged so you can feel superior. closest crag is an hour away and I have 2 kids that limit the option of running laps. However, I have a woody in my garage.

Wow, sensitive much? Seriously, you said you had hung on a 5.8, you're lucky more people aren't giving you shit. And yeah yeah, I know grades are sandbagged in NC, I'm sure I'd poop my pants and quit climbing if I just looked at this route that bouted you.

To expand from the very good advice that JCM gives, "technique" does not just mean "good footwork." It encompasses a huge body awareness, all with the goal of being as efficient as possible, thus not getting pumped.

You wanted to know how to build endurance for the sorts of goals that you have– overhanging routes at Moore's Wall, right? I've not climbed at Moores, but have heard that it's similar to the Gunks, where I have climbed a bit. For those sorts of routes, you usually have tiered roofs that are hard and cruxy, but good stances before and after these cruxes. They are not sustained the same way that RRG jughauls or Indian Creek splitters are. Learn to find stances, creative body positioning, and rests. It is difficult to learn this particular type of steep technique on a small home woody.

However, if you DO think that your problem is just a matter of not operating under pump, or whatever, this is my favorite type of PE training on woodies: set a juggy, 5.10+ish circle that goes up, down, and around your wall. The steeper, the better. Do laps on this until you are pumped, learning the best spots to rest and shake, and then go into harder v2-3ish 3-4 move boulder problems immediately from this traverse, without hitting the ground.

camhead wrote: Learn to find stances, creative body positioning, and rests.

Yes. This. "Technical" does not just mean vert climbing, "technique" does not just mean standing on small edges, and "footwork" is just as important on steep terrain...but it is a different set of skills.

Camhead, I never said you wouldn't be able to breeze Air Show. I'm sure it would be an easy romp. Me on the other hand, it's pretty tough if you get hung up with gear and finding a rest... believe me I was looking. Its not stances to a bulge, it's slightly overhanging to a bulge.I was above my gear and my gear options sucked and I was right under the crux bulge. I know now where I went wrong so I dont see that happening again the same way. I think if you climbed it you would understand a little more, that's all I was saying. Hell, Jake knows what I'm talking about. Dopey duck was another one where again, same thing... gear problems on a continuously overhanging wall (and again the only 9 I've hung on). I let myself get so pumped I could not retract my red C3... seriously.

I'll backstep and say I have some learning to do. I can see I overreacted and was a bit touchy. Maybe I didnt see the point of your "yeah, what he said" post without any real help. As I said I was looking to gain endurance with the wall I have and I probably got to focused on that. Though, I will say I feel confidant going into these climbs and climb smoothly. I feel like I am pretty good about finding rests and climb pretty efficiently, which is why I got "sensitive" about the technique comment. In both those climbs I could not get enough weight off my arms enough to recover, at least in my condition. That's my thought anyway. If I could just gain that "endurance" or "conditioning" to be cool longer on steeper rock.

Decisiveness also plays a roll in the situation. Had I gone up into the crux a little farther on air show, there was good gear. had I committed earlier, rather than hesitating and stressing over gear below the crux, I would have found a good spot for pro, and still had plenty juice to finish the crux and get a good rest.

Moores is my local crag but Steep areas like that are fairly common around, not just at moores. Shortoff and Hawksbill have some steep stuff as well as Shiprock and whitesides. They are the most desirable routes to me, in a way, because of their sporty nature protected by gear and the fact that most of them are gear anchors. Thanks for adding your thoughts on adding endurance with what I have, I'll definitely add a loop circuit to my wall.