Mountain Project Logo

Totem vs. Fixe Aliens

ericthemurse · · Victoria, BC · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

Got an email saying that their web store won't be open until mid September now.

gtluke · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 1

Can you even buy any? Who's got em in stock?

James Dudley · · Tacoma, WA · Joined May 2013 · Points: 1

I had a blue basic and some regular totems on order through backcountrygear.com, but they told me a couple of weeks ago that Totem informed them they wouldn't be shipping any more cams for the rest of the year.

Apparently they've been moving factories which is causing some delays. And they couldn't say when they'll be shipping again, but hopefully in January.

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125

exacting wording from backcountrygear.com:

I regret to inform you that Totem has informed us that they will not be shipping out any more cams for the remainder of the 2013 year.

They were in the process of moving factories, which is causing the extreme delay in production. I apologize for the inconvenience.

We will keep your order saved in our system, and we will process your order as soon as Totem starts processing orders again in 2014. Totem is not yet sure when they will begin to start shipping the cams in 2014, but they are hoping for next January.

Allen Corneau · · Houston, TX · Joined May 2008 · Points: 80

" Holding power vs MC's? (I cant find the angle they use for the lobes) "

I believe the Alien/Basic has a 16 degree cam angle; so technically less holding power but most folks that use them don't seem to mind.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
Allen Corneau wrote: " Holding power vs MC's? (I cant find the angle they use for the lobes) " I believe the Alien/Basic has a 16 degree cam angle; so technically less holding power but most folks that use them don't seem to mind.
I really doubt that a difference of a few degrees will make any difference in the real world. There was lots of evidence of mis-drilled holes in CCH lobes, and as a result you had effective camming angles that ranged all over the place. Like 5 to 30 degrees. And those Aliens had legendary effectiveness. As long as the head stayed on the stem.
chrisIerickson Erickson · · Salt Lake, UT · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 55

I've had mine for 2 years, fallen on both a yellow and green. They are holding up very well, and both falls held great. One was even in a downward-facing flaring thing, and it took a pretty solid fall.

I have a blue mastercam (and purple) and it is just a little smaller than the green totem. I bet they'd mix well together.

patto · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 25
Gunkiemike wrote: I really doubt that a difference of a few degrees will make any difference in the real world.
HA! Surely you jest!?

There is a 20% holding force difference between the two (Aliens and Master Cams). On smooth rock this will easily make the difference between the cam holding and the cam pulling. However there is more at play. In high friction coarse rock with flared crack then an alien style design is superior. In smooth rock with parallel crack then smaller cam angle is superior. I climb mostly on smooth rock so there is no way I would trust aliens to hold.

Totem Cams (as in the orginal Totem Cams) give you both in the one cam. Their flare performance and their holding force better than both extremes.
mountainhick · · Black Hawk, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 120

Interesting, I kept a set of TCUs but sold my master cams and second set of TCUs to get the basics. Now have 1 set of basics, one set of CCH/fixe (both sets up to red) and TCUs up to orange. I find more versatility in having a set of TCUs to compliment the 4 cam pieces. rather than a set of MCs. I wasn't too fond of the master cams, both in terms of the trigger mechanism and small ones are really easy to overcam. Just personal preference

RandyR · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 40
Gunkiemike wrote: I really doubt that a difference of a few degrees will make any difference in the real world. There was lots of evidence of mis-drilled holes in CCH lobes, and as a result you had effective camming angles that ranged all over the place. Like 5 to 30 degrees. And those Aliens had legendary effectiveness. As long as the head stayed on the stem.
Legendary effectiveness is right. I fell on a green alien with only 2 lobes engaged (it was all I could get). I thought for sure I would be sailing past the belay to be caught by my first piece (#1 camalot). That thing held like a champ.
Allen Corneau · · Houston, TX · Joined May 2008 · Points: 80
Brassmonkey wrote:Ben, I'm pretty sure the lobes and sizes on the TCU's are exactly the same as for the Mastercams.
Outer lobes, perhaps, but the inner lobe is larger than the outer ones (at least on my pre-Ultralight PowerCams).
Moof · · Portland, OR · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 25

Please explain to me the units of "holding power" before you whack jobs go too far. There is a lot of BS psuedo science thrown around by folks who clearly have never taken a physics class in their life (or failed miserably) about cam angles.

In short, there is no "right" cam angle, and what we have are compromises to work across a range of conditions. To listen to a lot of you wing nuts one could wonder by there aren't <10 degree cam angles out there to get even more Holding Power (7 Minute Abs!).

Metolius uses 12 degrees, and harder, often narrower lobes (at least their master cams). The small cam angle puts more outward force for the same downward force with a hard lobe. Better right? For hard smooth rock, yes probably. For weaker rock like sandstone this is more likely to crush the top layer of rock resulting in a layer of granules that act as ball bearings, which can be bad.

On the other extreme are aliens with a 16 degree cam angle and (would you believe) 6061-T6, a fairly soft alloy. Less outward force, and softer lobes. The cams wear out faster just thrashing around your rack and getting beat up on C1 aiding. In soft rock the lobes conform to the texture avoiding the ball bearing issue. But on hard smooth guano polished granite, they are the ONLY cam I have had that folded up and sucked out of the bottom of a parallel crack under body weight.

It all goes back to Jardine' orignal analysis that showed that 10 degrees put too much force on the rock, pulverizing mediocre rock, and 18 degrees was too much and could skitter out of smooth hard rock. As a result you see lots of 14-15 degrees cams as a compromise for good came range with good performance across a wide range of rock types, and a couple wing nut manufacturers who go closer the the extremes for their own reason. Then you have a lot of internet arm-chair nut jobs regurgitating marketing pseudo-science like fools.

Allen Corneau · · Houston, TX · Joined May 2008 · Points: 80
Moof wrote: Metolius uses 12 degrees, ...
Actually, Metolius uses 13.25 degrees
Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

So long as the shit works.

Ryan Nevius · · Perchtoldsdorf, AT · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 1,837
Brassmonkey wrote:So long as I get a green and yellow...who wants to sell them to me :)
Maybe post in the For Sale / Wanted forum?
Nat Shultz · · Cottonwood Heights · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 355

Any update or word on Totem's status? I shot them an email a week ago and have not heard back yet? Itching for some of those new basics!

Thanks!

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125

3/20 from backcountrygear.com:

Totem has informed us that the Blue/Green Basic Cam should be available within the next couple months. I am very sorry for the long wait on that cam.

Btw, I ordered that thing last summer. Good thing I haven't been that motivated w/ gear fondling.

K R · · CA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 50

I got mine online a few weeks ago from a store in the UK. If you're hurtin for them, you can find them, and shipping was only 10 pounds. I actually found a sweet sale on the new style Totems, so it wasn't bad.

Forthright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 110

Interesting. Pacific edge in Santa Cruz has them...

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349
" To listen to a lot of you wing nuts one could wonder by there aren't <10 degree cam angles out there to get even more Holding Power (7 Minute Abs!)."

LOL!
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Climbing Gear Reviews
Post a Reply to "Totem vs. Fixe Aliens"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.