Letter to Climbing Magazine

In the October 2013 issue of Climbing there's an article by Brittany Griffith about climbing in the Dominican Republic. In the fourth paragraph she writes, "Existing bolts, as in any tropical environment, were suspect; Burr broke one while jugging a line, but another very rusty bolt kept him from decking. We ended up bolting and climbing four new lines…"

Since Climbing no longer has a "Letters to the Editor" section, my feedback must go here.

With all due respect to Brittany and Climbing, I must loudly call foul! The failure of stainless steel bolts in tropical limestone, and especially in the Dominican Republic, has been well known for many years. Even the conservative UIAA published a warning after a series of accidents:

theuiaa.org/news_199_Extrem…

The fact that Andrew Burr wasn't seriously injured or killed is sheer luck, but more importantly, it highlights that even very experienced climbers are ignorant of corrosion issues and/or don't take them seriously. This ignorance is largely due to credible media sources, such as Climbing, barely acknowledging or totally ignoring the issue for the last decade. Notice how it is glossed-over in the article quoted above in order to move on to more juicy topics like new routes.

Furthermore, the group put up four new routes using stainless steel expansion bolts, clearly seen in the photos. These brand-new bolts will become unsafe, just like all the other stainless bolts on the island, within a year or two. They knew the bolts would quickly become unsafe but still used them in order to have something to write about and pay for their trip. This is unforgivable.

Lastly, it's not true that all tropical environment have unsafe bolts. Thailand and Cayman Brac, for example, have been using titanium bolts for 13 years. There is a proven solution to the corrosion problem. I would have been very impressed had Brittany and company used titanium bolts in their new routes.

John,
How dare you critique their bolting and use words like "call foul". You should be in awe and hang on every word she speaks. Besides she must be correct as an entire staff of a climbing magazine allowed every word & picture into print without apparently challenging it. They are experts and would have caught this before your amateur eyes would have if it was wrong.
Good climbers do not necessarily know about climbing and best practices that mitigate dangers. Hey, it appears a whole staff of so called experts missed it.
Thanks for your diligence and I hope that your comments get printed.

John Byrnes wrote: The fact that Aaron Burr wasn't seriously injured or killed is sheer luck, but more importantly, it highlights that even very experienced climbers are ignorant of corrosion issues and/or don't take them seriously.

By George! Hathe he cometh back from the dead, strong and willed from his duel with Alexander Hamilton to jug routes and take new fangled still visuals with a box that captures light!

---

I think you meant Andrew Burr :D

Hey! That's the guy who killed Alexander Hamilton.

Huh, I hear about ti vs steel every time I climb anywhere near salt. In fact, it's all I ever hear about.

There are loads of old bolts that shouldn't be used. The problem is well known and the user should assume all risk.

I have placed expansion bolts next to the sea. I always did this to establish the route and position me to get the glue ins in. Is it possible that is the case here? And the photos were taken prior? If not, you are right. It is shitty to leave time bombs anywhere.

Alex Quitiquit wrote: By George! Hathe he cometh back from the dead, strong and willed from his duel with Alexander Hamilton to jug routes and take new fangled still visuals with a box that captures light! --- I think you meant Andrew Burr :D

Yup, you're right. I fixed it ;-)

nicelegs wrote:... I have placed expansion bolts next to the sea. I always did this to establish the route and position me to get the glue ins in. Is it possible that is the case here? And the photos were taken prior? If not, you are right. It is shitty to leave time bombs anywhere.

Yes, I use steel for temporary top anchors while bolting too. I over-drill the holes and then, once the glue-ins are set, remove the hangers and pound the shafts into the rock.

The bolts in the photos are clearly not top-anchor bolts.

YGD Alexander!!

oh, too late

John Byrnes wrote: Yes, I use steel for temporary top anchors while bolting too. I over-drill the holes and then, once the glue-ins are set, remove the hangers and pound the shafts into the rock. The bolts in the photos are clearly not top-anchor bolts.

On overhanging rock and for directionals, you often need a lot more than just the top anchor bolts.

I'm not saying that is what they did but a photo of them clipping a steel expansion bolt on lead doesn't make me want to condemn them. At least not until I find out what they did about those bolts afterwards.

Any reason the titanium bolt is not countersunk? Ease of removal later? Not countersinking it some seems weaker to me and more liable to unclip a biner, not to mention more visibly obtrusive.

considering she sponsored out the wazu and HOT it really shouldn't have been that hard for them to get their hands on some Ti bolts. Esp after Burr was almost killed it should have been a red flag to stop and reconsider what they were doing.

M Sprague wrote:Any reason the titanium bolt is not countersunk? Ease of removal later? Not countersinking it some seems weaker to me and more liable to unclip a biner, not to mention more visibly obtrusive.

Good question, long answer.

We expect these bolts to last several centuries and removal was never a design criteria.

The bolts were designed to NOT be recessed because at the time (1999) we were not sure if crevice corrosion was going to be a problem. They exceed the UIAA strength standards in this configuration, of course.

Yes, recessing makes them even stronger, as you expect. And you're right about the unclipping probability, although recessed bolts still have this possibility due to the size of the eye.

However, the visual aspect is minimal as the dull grey color just blends into the background compared to shiny stainless steel.

And there are also disadvantages.

Recessing requires more labor, battery-power, glue and artistry to sculpt the glue without making a total mess. This adds cost to each bolt, which adds up quickly.

Recessing can make the bolt harder to clip in a hurry.

In an environment like Cayman Brac anything left on a bolt in order to lower-off mid-route, such as a carabiner or quick-link, will corrode shut in about a week and must be hack-sawed off. Having the entire eye exposed makes it easy to shove a bight through it, tie in and lower off anywhere on the route without the rope abrading against the rock and/or leaving anything behind.

That said, Thailand has recessed all the bolts and Cayman Brac has recessed only a few so far. There have been no issues in either place.

Since it is now agreed that crevice corrosion is NOT a problem, the manufacturer has recommended, as a minimum, recessing bolts that could see high fall-factors for even better margin. So I'm planning on recessing bolts 1 & 2 on all new routes, plus belay stations where a factor 2 fall is possible.

Meh, It is Climbing Mag, what can you expect. As a route developer in Hawaii, I fully understand your point and agree with the need to use suitable material. I have gone through the same thing locally. We have a guy who is establishing remote lines using 304 wedge bolts, which is a really bad choice. I have told him repeatedly that the material wont last and I offered to supply him titanium bolts, but he is not interested.

20 kN wrote: I have gone through the same thing locally. We have a guy who is establishing remote lines using 304 wedge bolts, which is a really bad choice. I have told him repeatedly that the material wont last and I offered to supply him titanium bolts, but he is not interested.

What a total asshole. He's doing this on public lands? He doesn't care about access being withdrawn by the authorities? Land managers will likely withdraw access should they find out about this. I know you already had/have problems of this type.

In places where climbing is allowed, the LMs trust the climbing community to police itself and for best-practices to be followed. If this asshole is allowed to continue unhampered, you could lose access to public lands in Hawaii, and it will open up a whole new Can O' Worms for the entire country.

I would discuss the situation with your regional Access Fund rep and/or whoever has been negotiating in the past.

I can think of some things, distasteful things, that could be done:
1) Publish his name and convince the rest of the climbing community not to climb with him; ever.
2) Erase his routes, pull the bolts.
3) Remove his routes from any guides.
4) Make it clear to the community that his routes are unsafe, unethical and threaten their future access.

makes you just want to

youtube.com/watch?v=_cpGQ3z…

opengate.org/access-fund-bl…

lol knee

Climbing mag has gone down hill, the last month was as thin as a Trader Joes ad. Couple of cam and rope ads, something about a 5.15 something or other, a 10 year old boulder prodigy, and the occasional decent travel report is all you find most months...

VaGenius wrote:Hey John, what's going to get this guy in Hawaii to change his ways? Tar and feathering or conversation seem more likely?

Obviously he's been talked to already, even offered Ti bolts, and he doesn't care. Why don't you try talking to him?

VaGenius wrote:Nine times out of ten the folks doing this don't know any better. If you really care about this issue, here's a challenge: find out Aaron Burr ( haha ) and Brittany's contact info, and call them up and educate them. It's easier than living a lifetime of disappointment in others' actions and only griping about it.

It sounds like you didn't read the article before posting your little barb. They were not surprised by the condition of the bolts. They actually broke a bolt. They were in contact with the local climbers who certainly know about the corrosion there. All this before sinking the first new bolt.

And I have contacted them. Do you really think my post won't reach them?

Lastly, you'd look less foolish now if you had done your homework before accusing me of "only griping about it."

is that Killis?-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuOHM_F5sfI

Off topic sort of, but Buff Johnson's tantrum video is hilarious. My three year old did something similar recently (although not nearly so epic.)