Using only nuts in Red River Gorge

Hey guys,

I got a cousin who has two sets of nuts but no cams in his rack. I was hoping someone could suggest some climbs in RRG that would be super awesome but also safe to place only passive gear on. I'm out in Utah and it's been like 5-6 years since I been to the Red.

I saw a cool pic for "Rock Wars" .10a in the red but I don't know how well it would take nuts. Any info you guys could give me about passive gear climbing in the Red would be awesome!!

Global Village has some great moderates he should check out. Father and Son along with Casual Viewing should be on his list.

not sure about the red, but back in the day that's all people climbed with, I would say just sack up and take it to sends town!

The flake on Rock Wars would be interesting with only passive pro. It flexes some and I don't know how well your gear would stay. I haven't fallen on it, though, so I can't say for sure.

With as many sport climbs as there are in the Red, I would consider doing those instead if all I had was a set of nuts. Save up for a little while and get some cams - it won't be a choice that he soon regrets. It never hurts to befriend an old trad climber that hauls around a double rack everywhere, as well.

Of the climbs that I can think of that would "go" on only passive, most would be made measurably more exciting ("dangerous") with the lack of cams. The skill it will take to utilize an only passive rack on many climbs is considerable. If he wants some adventure, consider doing Cavers Route (5.3R) which has no gear anyways.

I shudder thinking of leading Rock Wars with only a set of nuts. Placing good passive gear in that climb is extremely challenging. The flake expands near the edge and this property has led to cams ripping on the climb (read ANAM two years ago where someone led on pre-placed gear and fell on a cam that ripped). I also talked to someone who ripped his nut out and was caught by a #1 MasterCam below it.

If he's really bored and wants to place the nuts, he can place some on Eureka at Global Village (I wouldn't try Father and Son with only passive - it's a relatively consistent crack). If he wants, he can easily clip a bolt and be in a happier place. Casual Viewing takes better passive than anything else at Global Village. Most things that I could run exclusively on passive require either a set of large nuts or hexes in addition to the nuts themselves.

Thanks for the replies guys. Yeah, I rarely use passive gear - I really should use more especially in BCC - but I always opt for C4s and C3s. I'm really curious about Fixe Aliens since I've been hearing people rave about them for years and years.

Thanks for the route names and I'll relay them back to my cousin in Kentucky. I just didn't want to put him in a position where, if he fell, he'd unzip from the wall. lol

Henry Barber only uses nuts...

taylor januskiewiecz wrote:Henry Barber only uses nuts...

Some people feel that Henry Barber was something of an exception, his cousin's mileage may vary.

What about:
1) Just dial the grade way down and see how it goes.

2) Biting the bullet and buying 4 or 5 cams wouldn't be TOO painful...and even just getting BD 0.75-2 would complement a full rack of nuts pretty well.

3) As someone said above, I did read somewhere that there are a couple of worthwhile bolt-protected routes down that way? Seriously, I can't remember if we even brought the rack on our RRG trip...if we did, it spent the week in the motel while we barely scratched the surface of the bolted stuff.

Greg G wrote:Global Village has some great moderates he should check out. Father and Son along with Casual Viewing should be on his list.

Great suggestion, plus the idea of doing sport instead of seeking trad you have no gear for.

Thanks again for the replies guys. Although I've never used them, what about throwing some tricams into the mix?

Okay, now I have a personal question that has been nagging at me for quite awhile. Do you remember from the movie "The Sharp End" where they go to the Czech Republic and use only tied knots as passive protection? I think they used different sized slings? My question: How do you tie those kind of knots and what are their names?

They looked like they placed them like hexes and stoppers but with more effort. Anyways, I'd like to try doing that but mixing it with cams. So it would be: cam, knot, cam, knot, cam, knot, etc... anyways I think y'all get the idea. What do ya think?

Skat B wrote:Thanks again for the replies guys. Although I've never used them, what about throwing some tricams into the mix? Okay, now I have a personal question that has been nagging at me for quite awhile. Do you remember from the movie "The Sharp End" where they go to the Czech Republic and use only tied knots as passive protection? I think they used different sized slings? My question: How do you tie those kind of knots and what are their names? They looked like they placed them like hexes and stoppers but with more effort. Anyways, I'd like to try doing that but mixing it with cams. So it would be: cam, knot, cam, knot, cam, knot, etc... anyways I think y'all get the idea. What do ya think?

"Monkey fists." Why?

J. Amundsen wrote: I also talked to someone who ripped his nut out...

Ouch

Skat B wrote:Thanks again for the replies guys. Although I've never used them, what about throwing some tricams into the mix? Okay, now I have a personal question that has been nagging at me for quite awhile. Do you remember from the movie "The Sharp End" where they go to the Czech Republic and use only tied knots as passive protection? I think they used different sized slings? My question: How do you tie those kind of knots and what are their names? They looked like they placed them like hexes and stoppers but with more effort. Anyways, I'd like to try doing that but mixing it with cams. So it would be: cam, knot, cam, knot, cam, knot, etc... anyways I think y'all get the idea. What do ya think?

Someone mentioned hexes upthread and that almost made me mention tricams, which are completely bomber and cost a small fraction of what active cams cost. Down the road, you may still use them sometimes even if you have cams, particularly if you climb somewhere with a lot of pin scars or pockets. They a little bit harder to place than slcd's and can be tricky to clean. But they'll keep you off the ground for a whole lot less money!

I second the notion to buy tricams. you love em or you hate em. I love them. Do save up and buy a good rack. My rack is fantastic... for learning on. Mostly because I have one or two of everything and no real sets. That said I love the Fixe aliens, but they arent very durable. Vs the new BD X4s... not really sure. after 3 climbs my x4 stem is bent. Not much but enough to make me wonder how long they will last. the aliens are fine but x4s are just a tad bit better performance wise and 10 bucks cheaper. Really its up to you. find someone who has them and try them out.

lol

Use large stoppers and thread them through the bolt hangers on ssport climbs That way you get real protection but still get the "trad is rad" feeling!

Climbing on passive pro only is kinda like riding a hardtail...it's badass. Nuts are pretty easy to tell if they are bomber or not. My main worry about passive pro is sometimes not having multi-directional protection. I suggest putting a sling on each piece instead of a draw so they are less likely to walk out with the rope drag. It also makes it less likely to create an outward pull on each piece instead of more downward.

Central Scrutinizer.

Troll around the base of el cap and other walls and he will have a full set of cams in no time.

Skat B wrote:Thanks again for the replies guys. Although I've never used them, what about throwing some tricams into the mix?

OK, first things first. Rock Wars flake flexes. It is safe on stoppers only provided you don't fall. I have seen a rather bad 50' fall from it with nuts pulled. There are some great placements where there are jogs in the crack that will stop a stopper, but not everywhere.
Upper pitch takes hexes, placed actively - which are nuts but not passive, of course.
I presume buy saying 'only nuts,' you include hexes through #9 or so. Otherwise you are obviously limited to fingercracks...
Also - as for using nuts + tricams. Yeah, that's fine. I lead there for years without a single SLCD. Pretty much anything. Tricams are pretty ideal there in that stone. Get the big ones and hexes and go do whatever you want.
PS - me on rock wars 22 years ago - no SLCD's:
Tony Bubb leads "Rock Wars (5.9+)" on Long Wall, in the Red River Gorge, KY. Photo by Casey Rhodes, 1991

Optimistic wrote:2) Biting the bullet and buying 4 or 5 cams wouldn't be TOO painful...and even just getting BD 0.75-2 would complement a full rack of nuts pretty well.

This. Those few cams would probably cost less than it's going to cost you to get to the red from utah, especially if you pick up some nice second hand cams.