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Bad Couple of Days on Longs Peak

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125

I'm not a fan of the JLP persona, but there are more than one way to interpret what he said:

You can interpret it as you are under no obligation to help an injured climber. Or you can interpret it as you shouldn't assume other climbers are obligated to help you if you get injured. This distinction is important, IMO. Because if you assume the latter, then you may assume it's OK to elevate your risk taking in the company of other climbers, since help would be more immediate & plentiful if you fuck up. This goes again the trad motto of being self sufficient and is also incredibly selfish. That said, in this instance, I have no reason to believe this to be the case.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Ari Kantola wrote:shame on anybody that climbs choss above a rescue.
you are correct
Nick Nystrom · · Monroeville, PA · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 120

I'm not going to get into the discussion of possible rescuers and what they did or didn't do, other than huge kudos to Tommy and Jonathan.

What's important now is best wishes for Christian to make a full recovery. Rayna, please relay those... it's been a long time since I climbed with Christian at TCW, but friends here haven't forgotten him.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Tony B wrote: And I was once shooo-ed from a scene myself, when I offered to stand-by for help. I've also been welcomed and asked to help in a few events. It seems that anything can happen, but it sure would be nice if people offered to help while not interfering.
damn dude, I've been climbing for 20 years and have never once been around even one rescue(besides a body recovery on El Cap) and 15 out of those 20 I was climbing almost daily.

I think all the points have been made now though, a clusterfuck at a rescue could NEVER help the situation, climbing above a hurt climber on a chossy climb could be really bad and asking if you can do ANYTHING should be first. did I miss anything?
Jake L · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 0

I want to start by wishing Christian a smooth recovery. I was in the north chimney when he fell. My climbing partner John posted above as “bag.” My partner and I were one of two parties on the Diamond after the fall and during the rescue. I want to give a full account of my perspective of the situation and I want to run through every decision that I made.

I was near the top of the north chimney but on the left side when Christian fell. He was near the top but on the right side. There was a rock pillar blocking my view of the entire fall, including where he landed. His climbing partner was somewhere below me but off to the right. There was another party going up the same general area as Christian and his partner. The leader of this second party was the first to respond to Christian after he fell. He had no hesitation to go up and assist. I will call him Responder #1 below. I believe this second party was pitching out the north chimney because they were very close to each other and it appeared to me that the lower person was anchored to the rock. From where I was when Christian fell I could hear everything – the fall, the communication afterward, the response.

When Christian fell a huge amount of rock went down the chimney. Rock had been tumbling down the chimney the entire time I was in it. In addition, before he fell, there was a third climbing party's rope in front of me. I could hear/tell that the follower from that party was close so I was standing still on a ledge when Christian fell. After he fell I watched Responder #1 go up. He was focused on helping and identifying the rope for the follower below. I listened as Responder #1 assessed the situation and built an anchor to secure Christian with. It was clear that the injuries were serious and that outside help would be needed. It took several minutes (maybe 10?) before Responder #1 was able to get Christian to say anything. I am not sure is he was unconscious for a period of time. While I was standing on the ledge I pulled my phone out to see if I had enough signal to get a call out for help. I did not get a signal.

My climbing partner was below me and had been standing still for a while. Rocks were tumbling down the chimney before the fall during the fall and after the fall. A grigri and a helmet also went tumbling down the chimney after the fall. There was lots of yelling and I had no way to communicate with my partner to see if he had been hit at all. Since Responder #1 was with Christian, my priority was to ensure the safety of my partner. The last thing you want in this situation is to have two people who need to be evacuated because someone else got hit by a rock.

I thought about and actually began to build a belay right where I was but changed my mind because the rock quality was not great and I was standing on a ledge full of more loose rock. The follower on the rope that crossed my path (a nurse, who later was able to get on the phone with emergency personnel while on Broadway) passed by me and cleared up a path for me to get up to Boadway. (To defend the nurse, she was the follower and her top rope was leading her up and left from the accident. She would have had to untie or have her belayer let out slack to move right to where Christian and Responder #1 were.) I was on the left side of the chimney and felt that climbing out of the chimney to the left would put people below me at minimum risk. It was a short vertical face above ledge and I was not above the injured climber. He and Responder #1 were actually above me, but far off to the right. During the time I was on the ledge, I made sure to listen to the situation and I offered my help. I could not actually see anything that was going on. Since Responder #1 was with Christian and my climbing partner was at risk of getting hit by one of the many rocks falling down the chimney, I decided I would climb up the vertical face to Broadway and try to get a cell signal. It would not have been easy to get over to Christian's level without knocking more rocks loose and he had several people already responding to him.

Once on Broadway I built an anchor and brought my climbing partner up. We were on Broadway with one other party. They managed to get a cell signal and talk to emergency personnel. We were told that a rescue was being put into place. At this point we knew of 6 people in the north chimney (injured climber and his partner, Responder #1 and his partner, Tommy, and Johnathan). The four of us on Broadway discussed our options. Help had been called for. We had been told that Christian could not move so we knew he would need to be taken out in a litter. There was a helicopter in the area because of the events from the day before. One option we ruled out was going back down into the chimney. We would have to repel which would mean likely knocking more rocks down on the people below us. Repelling the crack of delight and then going back up the north chimney to help also did not seem like a viable option because rocks were still tumbling down the chimney. At this point we felt that it was unsafe for us to return to the scene. There was rockfall and there were already a handful of people in the chimney. It was a matter of, if we went back down, we would likely make the situation worse.

We felt that we had done everything we could while keeping ourselves and others safe. A rescue was on the way. We decided to climb. Our route was left of the accident scene and no longer on loose rock so we would not be putting people below us at risk of rock fall.

As I said at the beginning, I wish Christian the best recovery. I am relieved that he has no brain trauma or spinal nerve damage. I also want to commend Responder #1 and the rest of the rescue team on the job that they did.

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
TR purist wrote: damn dude, I've been climbing for 20 years and have never once been around even one rescue(besides a body recovery on El Cap) and 15 out of those 20 I was climbing almost daily.
Lucky you.
I guess I've been less fortunate - there are accidents weekly in any major destination, and I guess I have been in the wrong canyon at the wrong time. It is few enough times that I could probably count all of the accidents I have been around on my fingers and toes, but it is many enough that I'd probably forget a few if I tried to.
People goof up sometimes. I guess I'm one of the types that runs towards the screams, so I've seen everything from a girl who swung into a corner and broke an ankle to a guy who got dropped on belay to a guy who fell off the Boulderado and landed on Hwy 119. (We diverted traffic until the situation was in control.) And then there's the times you are at a cliff and someone gets flipped and hits their head and your partner just happens to be an ER doc...
Got rope behind your leg in a fall? Willie H. did! Doctor Alex T. (note helmet) inspects the damage after the accident on "Andromeda Strain (10a)" on Roadside Wall of RRG, KY. Photo by Tony Bubb, 1994.

People get hurt. My point was if you know where you stand with it, you won't make an impulsive decision about what to do. You'll have thought it through already - Are you committed to doing anything you can? What can you offer? How do you best avoid the scene if you can not contribute?
Eli Helmuth · · Ciales, PR · Joined Aug 2001 · Points: 3,441
kirkadirka wrote:The crack of delight is more or less the rappel route off of Broadway. It would be a good alternative as the rock is much cleaner- however it is harder and pretty much 5th class the whole way. It would also be much more difficult to pass slow parties. People will always probably tend to the North Chimney as it is much easier technically, easier to pass, and really only 4th class for >80% of the terrain.
IMHO The North Chimney is 80% 5th class and I just pitched it out in 3- 5.6/7 pitches the other day, starting left of the gulley central where rockfall is the highest risk.
The Crack of Delight is wet, grassy, climbing with runouts- good luck with that start.
The Chasm View raps are easy, with only minimal rockfall risk from your rappelling partner above and I've passed most parties in the N. chimney >30 times by doing these raps. A bit more walking but by avoiding the falling rock risk of the shit chimney, you've eliminated much of the risk on the Diamond.
Jim Amidon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2001 · Points: 850

Touché Eli.......

John Keller · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2001 · Points: 5

Since the early days of mountaineering, it has always been accepted that, in the backcountry, you help others who need it. As a kid in the late 70s learning to backpack, summit peaks and climb, it was one of the first things I was taught. It's clear from these posts and from my experience that most people have been taught and believe the same thing. Many here have helped every single time they could. Based on these posts, it sounds like the initial actions following this incident included some very difficult decisions in a very uncertain and risky environment. But in general, as has been said by several in this discussion, if you really honestly believe that you are not obligated to help a fellow backcountry traveler, please go find a different activity or adjust your thinking. You are missing a fundamental tenant of who we are and what we do.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520
Eli Helmuth wrote: IMHO The North Chimney is 80% 5th class and I just pitched it out in 3- 5.6/7 pitches the other day, starting left of the gulley central where rockfall is the highest risk. The Crack of Delight is wet, grassy, climbing with runouts- good luck with that start. The Chasm View raps are easy, with only minimal rockfall risk from your rappelling partner above and I've passed most parties in the N. chimney >30 times by doing these raps. A bit more walking but by avoiding the falling rock risk of the shit chimney, you've eliminated much of the risk on the Diamond.
So Crack of Delight is not exactly delightful. I'll keep doing the Chasm View rappels then. I thought they were great.
coppolillo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 70
Eli Helmuth wrote: IMHO The North Chimney is 80% 5th class and I just pitched it out in 3- 5.6/7 pitches the other day, starting left of the gulley central where rockfall is the highest risk. The Crack of Delight is wet, grassy, climbing with runouts- good luck with that start. The Chasm View raps are easy, with only minimal rockfall risk from your rappelling partner above and I've passed most parties in the N. chimney >30 times by doing these raps. A bit more walking but by avoiding the falling rock risk of the shit chimney, you've eliminated much of the risk on the Diamond.
words to the wise
Charles Vernon · · Colorado megalopolis · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 2,655

Hey John aka bag and Jake, doesn't sound like you guys (or the other party that reached broadway) did anything wrong. Rappelling back down in there sounds like it would have been a recipe for disaster and more accidents, and only the best thing to do if there was no one else around to assist. Maybe Tony T's friend was caught up in the accident, stressed out, and doesn't have the best perspective on what happened, who was in a position to help, etc. As someone mentioned, the first thing you as a member of the non-injured party would need to do in any such situation is ensure that you clearly communicate with and don't endanger your own partner, who is carefully simuling between piles of loose rock out of sight above or below.

I know John Steinbauer aka bag pretty well and he's definitely not the kind of guy to callously climb on by a badly injured climber, in selfish pursuit of his own goals.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
climbing mag fbook post

climbing mag has already started the "shaming" process
doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264

What happened to the good old sticking to the facts credo of journalism? Can't really stand lazy journalists who instead of fact-finding and fact-checking, just peruse Internet forums chatter and get credited as "work"!

PalisadePete · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0

Why was there so much falling rock? Was the Film crew / zoo of climbers knocking them down? Conditions are favorable enough that nature isn't setting them loose in any significant quantity.

Was it really so crowded that no one can explain which parties climbed which routes? It's not like you're hidden on the Diamond. A climber "maybe" initiated a rock fall that knocked the leader down? Well, did they remember knocking a rock down or shouting to warn climbers below? This isn't "rock"et science.

The North Chimney is solid enough that an experienced climber could climb it without knocking down tons of rocks.

1) The easier free routes are NOT directly above the chimney; they are to the left

2) The accident was near the top of the chimney

3) It takes 30 - 45 minutes to climb the chimney in total, maybe 5 minutes to climb above the accident.

So it's actually pretty hard to constantly knock rocks onto a 7 hour rescue by climbing the diamond.

+1 for ensuring to stop, offer any & all assistance, skillz, gear, and rope

If I came upon a climber with what looks like a broken back / neck, I would not move them & I surely wouldn't try to lower them 500' all on my own! RMNP isn't that remote & it was a good call for other climbers to stay out of SAR's way (but still offering all gear / help!).

With others more experienced on the scene, you could bail & abandon a whole rack by building rappel anchors, or you could climb on and be extra careful about the rocks.

Matt Hartman · · Leavenworth WA · Joined May 2007 · Points: 240

Sounds like a complicated scenario. I wouldn't cast any judgement. Seems like getting out of the gully in a fast and safe way (up or down) makes a lot of sense for those not involved in rescue. More people on the scene doesn't really make it safe. I have climbed the N. Chimney once. The objective hazard is high, and skyrockets with more subjective hazards (more people). After doing it once, I would be first or climb the crack of delight, or pick another objective for the day. Hope the injured a speedy recovery and rehab. That could have happened to a lot of people.

Patrick Vernon · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 965

More info is good, if things went down the way they are described it sounds like the two parties who climbed past actually did the RIGHT thing. A few salient points:

Sounds like the recent rain is responsible for increased rock fall and loose rock.

First rule of rescue is don't put yourself in danger and create another victim. If this had happened by the side of the road and people passed that is one matter. This is a loose alpine gulley though. Remember the climber was hit from above, rockfall was continuous, and people are advocating that the other parties should have either rapped down from above (putting themselves in the line of rockfall as well as increasing the risk of repeat rockfall to the injured climber), or cross choss (with multiple parties exposed below) to assist, neither of which are good scenarios especially given the injured climber was already being assisted by multiple parties.

Climbing to the injured climber wasn't really an option anyway if the leaders of the simulclimbing groups didn't know what was going on.

Someone had to be on Broadway calling for help. This was one of the most important things to be done.

Continuing to climb dosen't sound like it was putting the rescue in danger as the accident happened on the right of the chimney and the natural route goes left. Continuing to climb to broadway sounds like a wise plan from a safety standpoint as there were already multiple climbers assisting and parties were moving out of the chimney and lessening the danger.

My guess is Tommy and Johnathan probably weren't planning on climbing anything on the left side of the diamond and were near or above the accident when it happened.

I probably would have been to weirded out that day to continue up the diamond itself.

Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669
JLP wrote:moss fused choss
ugh.. thats some of the worst kind. down here we also have choss fused moss clods
Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520
PatrickV wrote: First rule of rescue is don't put yourself in danger and create another victim.
Agreed, and this is actually taught in many rescue training classes. I remember it well.
David Appelhans · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 410

Christian, I'm so glad you survived. Here's to recovering.

We don't know if the rockfall was caused by other parties or not. However, knocking rocks down the North Chimney is something that can be avoided if parties are careful and experienced at climbing loose terrain.

I wish some of the more experienced climbers on this site that are consistently advocating inexperienced people just "go for it." on the diamond would think about what they are encouraging. On the best days everything is casual and no harm done if a party is in over their head or jams up a route. But inexperienced parties can quickly turn dangerous for other parties. If a party hasn't developed the skill to navigate the diamond (and quickly) yet, it can affect more than themselves--it can often put others in danger either because of a bottle neck, the passing on sketchier terrain, or inexperience with loose rock. Something to think about before we encourage alpine novices to just go for it.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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