Mountain Project Logo

Upper West Bolton Anchors

Tim Farr · · Markleeville, CA · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 357
TradDude5five wrote: My plan was to finally lead the 5.7 Corner on gear, set up a top rope and let my girlfriend climb the route too. Unfortunately at the top of the climb i discovered two bolts to serve as anchors! It was my understanding that this route was PURE TRAD! Instead of slinging the perfectly good tree at the top with a few slings and using a couple locking carabiners to set up the anchor i was FORCED to clip the bolted anchor and use that instead.
TradDude5five wrote: just interesting in making sure our climbing areas get developed properly. all im saying is that we should be more careful with where we place permanent bolts - ideally on hard routes, like 5.10. why excessively destroy our nonrenewable rock resource?!
Traddude5five wrote: i say only put bolted anchors on climbs 5.10 or over because anything below that grade can barely be considered climbing. i've got some really strong trad climbing friends that often simul climb and run it out while climbing 5.7.
So what your saying is the Anchor Police are out in force and demanded you clip the bolts instead of assesing which anchor set-up (tree or bolts) would be best for it's intended use. Your girlfriend had a horrible time climbing (or not climbing because it's only 5.7...) because you used the bolts instead of the tree.

I assume you're a member of CRAG-VT being so concerned about crag development (which is good to be don't get me wrong) since they have secured much of the Bolton climbing area and whome many of the members have put up A-TON of the routes all around Vermont at all grades and for all abilities. I do agree with your comment to some extent about being careful where we place bolts, but in a high impact zone I would much rather use properly placed bolts over frequented use of tree's. And last, your trying to be more like your friends who simul and run it out on 5.7 to show your girlfriend (is she new to the sport?) that perhaps safety isn't as big of a concern when learning to climb trad, as this was your end goal right; to finally lead the 5.7 corner. Did you clip the fixed pin out right around the corner?

I would think that on of the biggest impacts to climbing crags are the folks geting in to it who enjoy climbing at a lower grade than 5.10 and eagerly wait for the weekend to go out with their friends and top-rope. Im thinking of summer camps, college and university climbing programs, and other climbers introducing new folks to the sport. (ie; Harvest Moon, A-Sharp, Snakeskin Slab, Playing the Slots, Hush Mama Thrush, In the Pines, and In the Pines Direct) All of these can be lead on trad but ultimately end at bolts and are frequently used for Top-Ropes at Lower West Bolton.

You are right to question who bolted it and if they did this in an ethical manner. I do this freqently when climbing. But I would also question your decision to use them. You must have checked to see if the hangers were tight and assumed they were in the right orientation, you must have felt that they were bolted properly and the bolter didn't use a 1/2" bit with a 3/8" bolt, or that you trust the bolts are long enough for Schist. I have not been to Upper in some time, hopefully the bolter atleast used Stainless instead of Plated.
John Husky · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 5

" i say only put bolted anchors on climbs 5.10 or over because anything below that grade can barely be considered climbing. i've got some really strong trad climbing friends that often simul climb and run it out while climbing 5.7"- Dbag

Oh, dude. I'm so sorry for doubting your reasoning. I wish you had mentioned your friend's climbing ability sooner. It must be awesome to watch them climb. I don't "climb" much harder than .10 myself, so I will withhold any further opinions on the matter. You've probably had it up to here with us shitmunchers, amiright?!

Derek Doucet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 66
John Husky wrote: " i say only put bolted anchors on climbs 5.10 or over because anything below that grade can barely be considered climbing. i've got some really strong trad climbing friends that often simul climb and run it out while climbing 5.7"- Dbag Oh, dude. I'm so sorry for doubting your reasoning. I wish you had mentioned your friend's climbing ability sooner. It must be awesome to watch them climb. I don't "climb" much harder than .10 myself, so I will withhold any further opinions on the matter. You've probably had it up to here with us shitmunchers, amiright?!
Stop feeding him and he'll go away.
Jason Hayden · · North Clarendon, VT · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 9,585

^^ +1

Angryoldclimber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 0

Hey Derek
Wasn't it you who removed the bolt hangers from the new anchor on this climb?

Pretty sure you did it because you wanted to continue to kill that tree and make people drag a static line to set up the anchor. You moved the hangers to Paradox because climbing 5.11 is more important than climbing a 5.7 thats sees far more traffic and less experienced climbers like tradude5five.

That was a smart choice with safety and conservation in mind wasn't it?

Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

Don't be a COWARD wuus.. If yer gonna sling shit use your real name..

TradDude5five · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 0
Angryoldclimber wrote: climbing a 5.7 thats sees far more traffic and less experienced climbers like tradude5five.
I have plenty of experience.
Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

Bet you're both the same troll...

Derek Doucet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 66
Angryoldclimber wrote: Hey Derek Wasn't it you who removed the bolt hangers from the new anchor on this climb? Pretty sure you did it because you wanted to continue to kill that tree and make people drag a static line to set up the anchor. You moved the hangers to Paradox because climbing 5.11 is more important than climbing a 5.7 thats sees far more traffic and less experienced climbers like tradude5five. That was a smart choice with safety and conservation in mind wasn't it?
First, this will be my one and only reply on line. If after reading it you still have a problem, I'm happy to discuss it face to face. It's not as though I'm especially hard to find in our small local community. What I won't do is engage in an intraweb pissing contest, especially with someone not using their actual name.

With that said, you're partially correct. Yes, I removed the hangers and quicklinks (one link on each bolt, making for lovely rope twists when pulling your cord, but I digress) from the 5.7 corner. I did so by hand, by the way, since neither the nuts nor the links had been properly tightened. One of the links was a single thread away from open.

The primary reason that I removed the hangers was that the anchor is thoroughly unnecessary, and a static rope is certainly not required to rig a TR. Nor is going anywhere near the admittedly eroded top out of the climb. An anchor can be easily rigged with nothing more than a cordalette placed high on a huge tree. You know, just like the rap anchor that pulls so smoothly. In fact I did just that twice this past weekend. The other reason I removed the hangers is that for folks who choose to lead the climb, the anchor was placed essentially right in the middle of the final crux of the route, in close proximity to excellent protection in sound rock.

While we're on the subject, I didn't remove the studs and patch the holes because I don't presume to be the conscience of the local climbing community, or the enforcer of its standards and norms. If I get the sense that there is good consensus that folks want that anchor to remain, while I firmly disagree, I will not stand in the way. I left the studs to see what sort of reaction would be forthcoming for that very reason. I see no reason to damage the rock while this sort of thing is sorted out. Your anonymous internet post was the first negative comment I've received. I have however heard many voices of approval. Maybe that will change. We'll see.

Regarding the anchor on Paradox, yes, I placed it. I did so because there is no viable alternative there, and I was tired of watching folks blithely lowering off the Against the Grain anchor, completely oblivious to the potential hazard doing so entailed. If you don't know what I'm referring to, you're part of the reason I placed the Paradox anchor.

As for your contention that the relative grades of the climbs had anything to do with my actions, you're mistaken. I think the 5.7 corner is a fabulous route, every bit as worthy as Paradox. If we knew one another, you'd know that I've always been far more interested in quality than difficulty. I climb and enjoy both routes with regularity.

Finally, regarding your accusation that the hangers from the 5.7 corner were used in the Paradox anchor, there too you're mistaken. Go look for yourself. The hangers I removed were (if memory serves) Mammut. The hangers I used on the Paradox anchor are Fixe, like almost every bolt I've placed in Bolton the last 15+ years. Maybe you've even clipped a few of them. The hangers and quicklinks removed from the 5.7 corner are still in my car, and I'll happily return them to their rightful owner if s/he contacts me directly. I'd welcome the chance for a friendly dialog. Maybe it could address the poorly positioned convenience anchor on the Rose too, but that's another story!

That's all I have to say on the matter here. Again, I'm not hard to find. If you want to chat further, look me up or say hello out at the crags. But stop hiding behind the anonymity of an online handle if you want me to take you seriously.

Cheers,

Derek
DelamNation · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 0

Interesting thread. Im just trying to have a good old fashioned safe time at upper west bolton. The tree on top of the thorn is clearly damaged by that old fixed anchor, and I took it upon myself to update it. Use the bolts, or don't. but, it's impossible to say the bolts are less intrusive than the slings on a tree. For clarification, i only did the anchors on the north end wall, not on the lower corner. But I appreciate that she put up a bolted anchor on the 5.7 too.

more importantlY: to the person who stole the hardware off the anchors at the thorn wall - please return them. that's not cheap hardware - and i'm pretty easy to find.

also, my input: Travis and others have clearly established a common theme: bolted anchors, quicklinks and lower-offs at this crag are the norm. I'm not sure who would have lowered off any quicklinks at the 5.7 corner (why harm the rope?), but i'm sure they were there for rappelling, or for building something from which to loweroff for a TR set up.

crain.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northeastern States
Post a Reply to "Upper West Bolton Anchors"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.