Antidepressants and climbing

Timothy.Klein wrote:Use common decency, and go on your anti-drug tirade somewhere else.

In a time when 20% of adults are on some form of anti-depressants, I think it's necessary to let people know that there are effective alternatives. People should understand that anti-depressants are not happy pills, and that there are side effects. Yes, if you find the right one it can work wonders, but you should explore less-invasive treatments first. This is true for every medical field.

I'm not anti drug. I'm anti-drug as a first resort.

"Emo people - I am betting on CBT and placebo.
Bipolars and TBI people - I am betting on chemical intervention first.
Schizo-effective disorders - Most certainly go for the chemical trials first."

CBT has been shown to be effective for all of these. (if by "emo" you mean depression)

"Complex stuff man. see a doc. And it's OK to be a skeptic, MOST ESPECIALLY of what people offer you on the net."

agree

dmb wrote: CBT has been shown to be effective for all of these.

But not necessarily "more effective" or "as effective." Why are we having these parallel discussions? My above comment distinguishes a difference between "as effective" and "as likely to be effective." Misusing these terms is indiscreet if giving associated advice...

We agree on a lot of parallel stuff - and maybe I'm being picky about distinctions, but as someone who has had to call people in for consensus on 5150 (AKA Legal 2000 AKA Legal mental health hold) the devil is in the details.

So I wonder... What do you mean when you say that CBT is effective for Emo people? Do they cut their hair so they can see out of both eyes? I've got to think that would help with those crushing headaches that are causing their depression. That was more where I was headed with the statement. I was making a joke. I've dealt somewhat extensively with both real cases and attention-seeking cases and I'm not so fond of the drama-oriented depressed crowd. When there are people out there with real problems, the mental Munchhausen syndrome types are really clouding issues and sucking up resources that are needed in other places, so I guess my gallows humor follows that.

To the drama kings/queens...
"So see you when your 40, lost and all alone
being comforted by strangers you'll never need to know
not sad because you lost me
but sad because you thought it was cool to be sad
You think misery will make you stand apart from the crowd
well if you had walked past me today I wouldn't have picked you out
I wouldn't have picked you out"

My 2 cents worth (as a climber that was prescribed antidepressants once upon a time):

If you take them make sure you trust the prescribing psychiatrist or doctor as a person, not just because of their title. If they don't insist on monitoring your response to the drug, don't trust them!

Individuals vary hugely in their response to antidepressants, and it's impossible to predict. Some people get the little boost they need and some people get a big boost that leads to erratic behavior. If you turn out to be one of the latter, by definition you aren't going to be able to seek the help you need to stop taking the drug, because you are going to think you are totally fine!

For a climber feeling way too good can lead to uninhibited risk taking
on the rock! If the drug takes away your fear, you are a whole lot less safe. Fear is good.

The Keith Richards line from the Rolling Stones song "I wasn't looking too good but I was feeling real well" comes to mind.

Kudos to Samet in the article referenced earlier in this thread for opening up about his experience.

Although trite sounding (but certainly not meant that way), after all my travails with depression (and they have been many), the best solution I have found is "The best cure for depression is happiness". Maybe it doesn't work for everyone, but neither do antidepressants.

I don't know you so don't take this the wrong way. I could be barking up the wrong tree.

If you're drinking alcohol or doing any illegal drugs including Cannabis... STOP! Any of those things could make you feel the way you do. Cannabis has helped with depression but it's not for everybody. Stop for a month and you could feel much better.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I know firsthand how much better you can feel when you don't have a habit to feed. I hope you feel better soon. Depression is a fucked up place to be.

I would try every avenue available to you before seeking out a prescription. Here's what worked/works for me:

-regular exercise (not just climbing. I'm talking running/jogging, cycling, hiking: cardio stuff (though there are studies that show that extreme, strained cardio akin to triathlon type training is bad for the heart, so careful not to push it. After all, the goal is to feel good, right?))

-diet (definitely no processed/canned/boxed/fast foods, cut back on the gmos along with dairy, soda, sugar in general, and sodium)

-supplements (keep up with it, take them regularly: I swear by spirulina, ginseng, & ginko biloba. Also a good, general multi-vitamin is essential, and a B complex is great for overall energy.)

-stretch (just... stretch. Be it yoga, pilates, chinese meridian style, post-climb/run type stretching, whatever. Just do it. Regularly.)

You've probably tried some, if not all of that stuff already, and if you gave it a decent shot for a while and were consistent, and it still didn't help; I'd seek out a good, professional therapist.

If you do go the pill route, please be cautious, do your research, and choose your doctor/therapist wisely BEFORE you get on the meds. A lot of folks on this thread are offering up some great advice, but take it all with a grain of salt. Even with the professionals' opinions. The truth is, no one really knows the answer, because everything is different from person to person when it comes to this type of thing.

Good luck!

Jon Zucco wrote:I would try every avenue available to you before seeking out a prescription. Here's what worked/works for me: -regular exercise (not just climbing. I'm talking running/jogging, cycling, hiking: cardio stuff (though there are studies that show that extreme, strained cardio akin to triathlon type training is bad for the heart, so careful not to push it. After all, the goal is to feel good, right?)) -diet (definitely no processed/canned/boxed/fast foods, cut back on the gmos along with dairy, soda, sugar in general, and sodium) -supplements (keep up with it, take them regularly: I swear by spirulina, ginseng, & ginko biloba. Also a good, general multi-vitamin is essential, and a B complex is great for overall energy.) -stretch (just... stretch. Be it yoga, pilates, chinese meridian style, post-climb/run type stretching, whatever. Just do it. Regularly.) You've probably tried some, if not all of that stuff already, and if you gave it a decent shot for a while and were consistent, and it still didn't help; I'd seek out a good, professional therapist. If you do go the pill route, please be cautious, do your research, and choose your doctor/therapist wisely BEFORE you get on the meds. A lot of folks on this thread are offering up some great advice, but take it all with a grain of salt. Even with the professionals' opinions. The truth is, no one really knows the answer, because everything is different from person to person when it comes to this type of thing. Good luck!

+1 ^^^

I don't smoke weed, it just seems like everyone I know that does is in a better place than me

I've thought about mushrooms, but I've been told that my personality would cause me to freak out, and get pissed about losing control.

I drink a 6 pack of beer on average per week.

From what I've found online I probably would be diagnosed with dysthymia. Ill try and find a doctor around this area, but this area has a lack of quality medical professionals. Eastern Sierras.

I'm also worried about the stigma associated with being diagnosed with a mental disorder.

I've tried saying stuff to "friends" but they just stare at me and try to get out of the conversation.

Maybe try smoking some weed?

I left out some very important ones: breathing and meditation. Sounds hippy dippy, but just stopping yourself throughout the day and taking a deep breath, and allowing yourself a cognitive reframe is key. Do this when you're feeling overwhelmed by either a.) the weight of how you are feeling, or b.) the apparent weight of the external world.

It's amazing how just stopping for 10 sec and breathing can redirect your day and alleviate all the pressure that can build up around your psyche.

As far as mushrooms or other psychedelics go; be careful. I've heard there are studies that have shown that psychedelics like psilocybin can trigger latent neurological issues in genetically predisposed people. Stuff like epilepsy, schizophrenia, and others that are much more of a handful to treat and live with than chronic depression. But I am definitely no expert.

Also, just read this: "Harvard School of Public Health researchers reviewed the drinking habits of more than 200,000 people over 16 years and found that two to three cups of coffee a day slashed suicide risk by up to 50 percent. Meanwhile, beverages like soda, tea, and decaf coffee had no effect on the statistics.

The caffeine in java could have a protective effect against depression and some neurological diseases like Parkinson’s disease, says lead study author Michel Lucas, Ph.D."

I drink a lot of coffee, guess I should be thankful it's around.

I have done some free soloing, not my thing, but I could see it being both really good or bad for you. It could at least get me out of my head, but considering how anxiety kicks in when I'm down I'd likely get stuck mid route.

Depression is no joke. Get help. If you go see a Psychiatrist for a prescription, I would strongly recommend asking them for a referral to a therapist. The two work hand-in-hand, and it will help you (and them) decide what drug(s) may work best for you. It will take time and hard work, but you will see a change.

There are a lot of opinions about drugs, therapy and holistic options for mood management. None of them matter. The only thing that matters is what works. A therapist might help you find the right path a little faster and easier, whether it be drugs or not. The key is an open mind and the want for something better. You can do it.

At the end of the day, nothing matters more than getting better... not even climbing. Best of luck.

Just Jesse wrote:Depression is no joke. Get help. If you go see a Psychiatrist for a prescription, I would strongly recommend asking them for a referral to a therapist. The two work hand-in-hand, and it will help you (and them) decide what drug(s) may work best for you. It will take time and hard work, but you will see a change. There are a lot of opinions about drugs, therapy and holistic options for mood management. None of them matter. The only thing that matters is what works. A therapist might help you find the right path a little faster and easier, whether it be drugs or not. The key is an open mind and the want for something better. You can do it. At the end of the day, nothing matters more than getting better... not even climbing. Best of luck.

& what if i don't care, or maybe just too lazy, to want to change? What came first depression or laziness?

I just hate who I am but I'm too lazy to change.

teece303 wrote:The average SSRI antidepressant will have precisely zero impact on your climbing.

They will have zero impact on more than climbing:

psychologytoday.com/blog/ob…

I personally would recommend finding a good psychiatrist. as a person fighting bi-polar disorder, my psychiatrist has been an amazing help. Make sure you find someone you trust, though. I personally trust my psychiatrist more than I trust my rope and that definitely helps. I have tried both non-medicine and medicine routes and have found medicine to work much better and more consistently. That being said, it is different for everyone and therefore you should make your own descision based on your own experience and principles. Other than that, I would suggest trying to cut back on your alcohol consumption as alcohol is a depressant. Also, get more sun as sun exposer is a natural anti-depressant (your body absorbs vitamin D which is a natural anti-depressant- this is why some people get seasonal depression in the winter)

Here's how it went down for me:
First I shared honestly with friends and family how I was feeling. They recommended I talk to my doctor and do what he says. He recommended a psychologist, and do what he says. He recommended a psychiatrist, and do what he says. He prescribed meds that I very much did not want to take, but I had agreed to follow the directions of the doctors.

First round of meds didn't help. Second round did. A lot. I finally felt "normal". Then I started feeling angry that I had struggled my whole life, and imagined how much different things could have been if I had sought this help sooner.

Everything changed. I don't get butt hurt as often, I'm more effective at work, I can show up in my relationships, and I climb a lot more frequently, faster, and harder. I am more effective. Being depressed made me ineffective.

I should also mention - I quit alcohol & drugs 20+ years ago, gone deeply into meditation, outdoor living, religion, recovery, fitness, diet, lots of other things. They all help, but medication was a huge part of the solution.

You don't need to settle on the first psychologist and/or psychiatrist you talk to. Talk to several, and go with the one you trust. Be honest. Ask for help, receive help.

What if everything could be so much better?