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What does 5.12a mean to you?

Ed Wright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 285

I've had a long career in climbing (since '67) full of adventure and lots of first ascents but in terms of grades I peaked at 12a--but that was trad, on sight, so I'm pretty happy with that.

kiff · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 1,035

depends where it's at...12a at shelf road is a bit of a joke...12a crack at 13,000 ft is hard

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349
"
depends where it's at...12a at shelf road is a bit of a joke...12a crack at 13,000 ft is hard"


Do you think down at Shelf it would be true for the 5.2's as well?

I mean, do you think they're "Soft", too? (I am really hoping the answer is "YES")

Thanks in advance!
ian watson · · Sandia park, NM · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 235
Merlin wrote:It means you climb stuff I can't toprope.
X2 the Closest I am ever going to come to that is the V grade conversion.
slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103
Charles Leung wrote:It's like bench pressing 225.
that is actually a really good analogy for us skinny folks.
slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103
Gunkiemike wrote: Thanks for the laugh. Always good to start the day with a chuckle.
if you want a really good, deep belly laugh than i suggest reading SCC's statement that pretty much anybody can climb 13 with a bit of training....
rging · · Salt Lake City, Ut · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 210
Ed Wright wrote:I've had a long career in climbing (since '67) full of adventure and lots of first ascents but in terms of grades I peaked at 12a--but that was trad, on sight, so I'm pretty happy with that.
If you weren't happy with that we would have to send a pack of 10a climber to beat some sense into you.
Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945

Someone's already climbed it...

Mark Paulson · · Raleigh, NC · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 141

The statement that "anyone can climb 5.whatever" is more false than true. Physiologically, yes most people could conceivably climb 5.12 if they're willing to do what it takes. It takes a lot more for some (mesomorphs, high BMI) than others, however, and a lot of people don't enjoy constantly climbing at their limit. Everyone has to find the point at which climbing provides the most satisfying experience for themselves.

My reason for wanting to push my own grades and ability is that my closest serious sport area is the NRG. If you're climbing sport at the New, it seems like so many of the amazing, classic lines are 12's. For the last few years my mantra has been "I just want to climb 12's at Endless". The last year or so, I've finally gotten to that point, and I can say it's been completely worth it (for me). For my body, schedule, and level of motivation, I think it's my personal sweet spot. I've RP'ed one 13, and while it's a nice feather in my cap, my takeaway was that it would simply take more time and energy than I'm willing to expend to consistently climb 13's.

However, no one's going to climb a 12 without getting on one, and I think a lot of people are more intimidated by the number than they should be. I know I was. Just because you're not a "5.12 Climber" doesn't mean you can't get to the top without falling,

rging · · Salt Lake City, Ut · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 210
sycamore wrote:...yes most people could conceivably climb 5.12 if they're willing to do what it takes.
How about people that have injuries or flat out worn out limbs from a life of "other" activities. Try playing 1,000 games of baseball then see how your elbows and shoulders work as you climb every day trying to get to 5.12. As a good friend always reminds me, the great thing about climbing is you can have fun at any level (although a bad shoulder does detract from it a bit).
Mark Paulson · · Raleigh, NC · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 141
rging wrote: How about people that have injuries or flat out worn out limbs from a life of "other" activities. Try playing 1,000 games of baseball then see how your elbows and shoulders work as you climb every day trying to get to 5.12. As a good friend always reminds me, the great thing about climbing is you can have fun at any level (although a bad shoulder does detract from it a bit).
I said most, not all. It's a semantic argument, and probably not worth arguing, but I still hold that _most_ physiologically sound climbers could physically climb 5.12 if they train hard enough. Whether or not it's a healthy goal, a responsible one, or a realistic one, is up to the individual. Job and familial obligations, other interests, relationships, injuries, or just not feeling like trashing your body at the gym 3-5 nights a week are all perfectly valid reasons why a majority of climbers won't ever climb that grade. And that's totally okay.

I run 3-5 miles pretty regularly. I could conceivably run a marathon, but I don't desire to do so, largely because I don't feel the "benefits" (i.e., my enjoyment or sense of accomplishment) would outweigh the effort/sacrifices needed. And for a lot of people, the amount of enjoyment they would get out of climbing 5.12 wouldn't outweigh the costs. That calculation is different for every individual.

But as far as climbing goals go, it's a pretty decent one to have. For a lot of people it's pretty realistic (a lot more so than .13 or .14). And it's no more arbitrary than trying to climb outside a certain number of days a year, getting a certain amount of pitches done in a day, or any other perfectly valid goals.

My goal was never the grade itself, but to be able to climb certain lines. My first 12a was a 40' four bolter, and didn't really mean much at all to me. However, my first five-star 100 footer I'll never forget.
JF1 · · Idaho · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 400

I feel like 5.12a means being precise. Just mentally focused with less slop or mistakes or you will get spit off.

Shawn Heath · · Forchheim, DE · Joined May 2008 · Points: 28,380
Brent Larsen wrote:This summer I've been able to send 5.12a at my local crag after years and years of practice. While this grade is not the ultimate goal in climbing it should be considered something to pat someone on the back for accomplishing. My question is what does this grade mean to other climbers? Did you achieve the grade after many years of struggling through lower grades or did you achieve it by hang dogging on a favorite 5.12 until you got the send? Did you find yourself going through a personal epiphany when you achieved the grade or was it just another day of climbing? Did you train to achieve 5.12a or did it just come as natural as any other grade below it? What does 5.12a feel like? Is the number and letter of the grade important or is the beauty of the line itself what you were after when you starting climbing 5.12a? What does 5.12a mean to you?
Before I read through all of the other comments here, I'll answer the OP. For me, 12a was a big goal for a long time because a friend told me in 2009 "You should climb 5.12. The only holds there are good holds!" Then I found Thunderstruck and jumped on it, even though I hadn't even sent 5.11c at the time, and 5.11a onsights were a long way off. Now I live in Germany, and the scale is completely different so I'm not completely sure what my real 5.12a was, but I consider it to be a short, bouldery thing called Danny de Vito. I had tried lots of other "5.12s" (not knowing which ones are actually 5.12a or loads harder, depending on when they were put up) and was able to send on my second attempt. This was a month and a half ago. I was super stoked and it was a great day, but it wasn't really much different than other climbing days. We continued down the line and did other routes. If I would go to the same crag more often, I'd be able to redpoint much harder, but I'm always going to new places and enjoying the easier-than-5.12 routes. And since I don't spend heaps of time working a route, I tend to only pick nice projects to come back to, and painful or otherwise unpleasant ones I scratch off. I want to be inspired in order to work a route. Thunderstruck was inspiring and is a long-term goal for whenever I get back, and I also have a newer goal - a sweet 5.13c(?) which will take me a long time to get, but she's beautiful.
camhead · · Vandalia, Appalachia · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,240

12a can be all over the place, and it is definitely one of those "magic grades." I'll admit that I seek that grade out, and looking at my ascents lists, I've done way more 12a's than 11d's.

Some older, stiffer crags, you climb routes of the grade where you know that the FA's thought process was "holy shit, this is the hardest route I've ever been on! It might even be a 12a!"

The other crags, I imagine that the FA was thinking "ok, we need a warmup for our sport cave, here's one, so let's give it 12a."

Rajiv Ayyangar · · San Francisco, CA · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 220

Thanks for the thread and the question, Brent! Congratulations on reaching a new level!

When I started climbing in college, 5.12 seemed like the grade of masters. After a few years of bouldering in the gym, on my second sport climbing trip, a friend and I projected and sent a short, bouldery 12a at Rumney on our second day of work. For the next few years after that breakthrough, 5.12 was the grade of projects, of serious study and several days of work. It was the grade at which, I thought, truly interesting and difficult climbing started.

For several years, I projected a few 12's each year. They were hard-earned, both in terms of physical effort projecting strategy. I filmed my unsuccessful burns to hone beta. I took detailed notes on beta I'd settled on, as well as beta I wanted to try or tinker with. Sending a 12 was always a climactic event, a wonderful confluence of beta, effort, and luck.

Four years after my first 12, it is starting to be a grade I have a decent shot of onsighting (though far from a sure thing). Mid-12's tend to be doable in 1-2 goes (and if wired, make good warmups). Low 13's seem to be the grade that I can send in a few days, or as soon as I figure out the beta. Mid-high 13 seems to be the grade at which I approach my physical and technical limitations.

I used to think that 5.10 was the grade that I could send no matter how out-of-shape I might become. Now I think 5.12 might be that grade - a level that I can technique my way up even with greatly reduced fitness (not without some try-hard, though!). And yet I still have a tremendous feeling of accomplishment when I send a 12 - more so than I ever had when 5.10 was about as hard for me. Perhaps it is because to send a 12, I need to become intimately familiar with the holds and beta, which is a process I find deeply satisfying.

A pro climber once told me the reason he was initially (and still is) motivated to progress is that as climbing gets harder, the routes and movement become more beautiful. I haven't found him to be wrong yet!

j mo · · n az · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 1,180

A lot of driving to the same crag, a lot of thinking about the same line, a lot of whining and crying to my wife about why it takes the college kids 2 tries to send the line that takes me 2 months, and a lot of help from the bro's to try to eventually figure out some moves... That's 12a for me, so far. Makes me stoked just to think about!

But not as stoked as big bad crack lines or multi pitch adventures....

Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669

12a is sometimes a letter grade harder than 11d and sometimes a letter grade easier than 12b.

JMo wrote:why it takes the college kids 2 tries to send the line
those guys need to try harder routes.
slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103
camhead wrote:I've done way more 12a's than 11d's.
i've done approximately 4 times as many 12a's as 11d's. same goes for 11a versus 10d. i think it's because i don't feel as bad if i get my ass kicked.
Mic Fairchild · · Boulder · Joined Jan 2003 · Points: 360

12a trad is difficult, clip-up less so.

Ben · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2003 · Points: 10
Matt N wrote:"What does 5.12a mean to you?" Its 3 numbers, a decimal point and the letter 'a'. In climbing terms it represents a difficulty grade that I cannot and do not aspire to climb. Congrats though.
Good talk, Matt.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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