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The success in failure, is there any?

Original Post
Ryan N · · Bellingham, WA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 195

I've been beating myself up lately, going back and forth about my decision to bail on a climb. I had planned this for several months, and had wanted to do it since I began climbing. Though slightly ambitious at my current expierence level I really wanted to send this, and believed that between my partner and I, we could do it. I felt that to make up for expierence in this discipline, our will and effort would allow us to top out. Long story short, I alone(not my partner) made the decision to bail. We weren't effecient or fast enough to complete this climb with our supplies. Could we have went on and sent, probably, but something didn't feel right. Weather ended up being shitty next 2 days anyway. Water under the bridge at this point.

I've always been a cautious climber. Never been hurt, never had a partner hurt. I've had some proud climbs. Many times I've failed. When I finally succeed, the feeling is great, but in between, I'm plagued with the thoughts of "what if"? I walk the line between pushing myself harder, to eventually get better, or backing off when I'm not really feeling it and growing from having more climbs under my belt.

So my question is this, is there any success in failure? Is the best way to learn by mistakes or by expierence? Or does any of this matter at all?

AnthonyM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 30

Yes-Success at knowing when you are at your limits, not feeling it for the day, or sitting at the trailhead watching the snow, hail, and rain beat the crap out of the rock face you were just on.

Sometimes "not feeling it" or having an "off-day" just means your head is elsewhere and better to not be on the rocks making mistakes. Being able to see this is huge. So yes success comes when you watch the face get hailed on and drive away knowing it would have been a scary and unnecessarily dangerous day had you not gone with your gut.

Paul Trendler · · Bend, Oregon · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 111

Sometimes I wonder if I like taking whippers more than sending first go...

jasoncm · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 30

Life is just a series of lessons, and failing these lessons is where you really learn from them. You will keep experiencing the same lesson until you succeed in learning from it, then you will move onto the next one!

My biggest mistakes/failures have always turned out to be the most educational.

Cheers

Jason

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
Ryan N wrote:So my question is this, is there any success in failure?
Of course. Regardless if you top out or not, you still climbed a portion of the line, thus absorbing the experience of the portion you climbed. You also learned what your upper limit is. Last, in some cases, such as bailing on an overhanging aid climb, you can learn things that you couldent possibly learn by sending (e.g. down-aiding on rap).
Brent Butcher · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 275

The only time I bail is if I have a major broken limb.

Ellenore Zimmerman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 75

stack odds in your favor, train hard, choose they right partner, and listen to your woman....that's all I have to say about that...

david doucette · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 25
Ryan N wrote:is there any success in failure?
yes there is. you sound pretty down about it, but don't beat yourself up over it.

what you did do right is exercise good judgement. that is one of the most important skills in climbing. something didn't feel right, so you decided to bail. that something could have turned a routine climb into some kind of epic with bad results.

there is value in exercising good judgement. i'm sure you'll get back to the climb.
Ryan N · · Bellingham, WA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 195

Thanks guys. With all the fatalitys lately, tahquitz, el cap a week ago, and now what appears to be another fatality on el cap, I err on the side of caution. I'm trying to break into big walling but find it rather difficult. I'm learning a lot, and making some progress. Many of the processes I've learned we're a direct result of members on here and SuperTopo. For those of you who have helped thanks, this is how this forum should work. Though that's not to say there isn't any room for some mild mischief...

20kn, you still in the valley? I'll be back this week.

Walt Barker · · Western NC · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 425
craghead wrote:stack odds in your favor, train hard, choose they right partner, and listen to your woman....that's all I have to say about that...
This is solid gold....
Ellenore Zimmerman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 75
Walt Barker wrote: This is solid gold....
...and listen to this guy!
and don't worry about it. You know you can do 3 aide pitches, set a ledge, and hawl. It gets easier as you go. Practice makes perfect! Live to climb another day.
Ellenore Zimmerman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 75

"Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are naught without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste, look well to each step , and from the beginning think what may be the end." Edward Whymper.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

There is no success in failure. But thats because failure is a mind set. You have not failed. Failure is when you convince yourself you CAN'T. Believing you CAN is how you succeed. You may mess up, the time and/or circumstances may not be right, you may psyche out, you may be too burned out mentally or physically, but as long as you believe you CAN you will not fail! It's good to be upset or bummed you didn't push through or didn't send/top out. That's motivation that will drive you to succeed! Of course, I have no experience in big wall aid. But, I feel this attitude applies to all climbing and basically everything in life.

John Keller · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2001 · Points: 5

I would say, Strong Work! You did exactly what you're supposed to do. Monitoring your speed and impressions against the overall goal to aid in decision-making is one of the major mountaineering skills and one of the most difficult for some people to learn.

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180

If you can endure Elenor you should be able to endure anything.

rging · · Salt Lake City, Ut · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 210

Living to climb another day isn't enough for you? I assure you the rock will still be there.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
Ryan N wrote:Thanks guys. With all the fatalitys lately, tahquitz, el cap a week ago, and now what appears to be another fatality on el cap, I err on the side of caution. I'm trying to break into big walling but find it rather difficult. I'm learning a lot, and making some progress. Many of the processes I've learned we're a direct result of members on here and SuperTopo. For those of you who have helped thanks, this is how this forum should work. Though that's not to say there isn't any room for some mild mischief... 20kn, you still in the valley? I'll be back this week.
I am at Lake Tahoe right now, but I'll probably come back in a few days. When are you going up Lurking Fear? I hear you on the fatalities aspect. Three deaths in about three weeks, all from rock-fall related issues on El Cap. Makes me not want to climb El Cap again.
Matt J · · Minneapolis, MN · Joined May 2010 · Points: 70

By DanP
16 hours ago
From Georgia
There is no success in failure. But thats because failure is a mind set. You have not failed. Failure is when you convince yourself you CAN'T. Believing you CAN is how you succeed. You may mess up, the time and/or circumstances may not be right, you may psyche out, you may be too burned out mentally or physically, but as long as you believe you CAN you will not fail! It's good to be upset or bummed you didn't push through or didn't send/top out. That's motivation that will drive you to succeed! Of course, I have no experience in big wall aid. But, I feel this attitude applies to all climbing and basically everything in life.

Ditto that. When that small voice comes from deep within, its best to listen to it. When you choose not to, enter vision quest...I dunno, that's my experience. I beat myself up for bailing, but not for long. Plus, the objective usually gets easier second attempt.

Life is short and I hate bailing on routes. But in the end, the routes are endless and to quote the highwaymen "the road goes on forever and the party never ends".

Ryan N · · Bellingham, WA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 195

20kn- this post was sparked by my attempt on Lurking Fear a week ago. Going to dial the big wall systems a bit more before I give it a go again. The common factor in all the El Cap accidents has me spooked. Maybe I'll try it again in the fall. For now I'm going to try Washington column and maybe leaning tower.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
Ryan N wrote:20kn- this post was sparked by my attempt on Lurking Fear a week ago. Going to dial the big wall systems a bit more before I give it a go again. The common factor in all the El Cap accidents has me spooked. Maybe I'll try it again in the fall. For now I'm going to try Washington column and maybe leaning tower.
Sorry to hear that, but it is not uncommon. Most dont make it up their first wall, especially when they try The Nose or something similar as their first. I have seen guys who haven't aided or hauled a day in their life try to climb The Nose (LMAO). The Nose has about a 75% failure rate for first-time wall climbers. Just practice up and you will be fine. I wouldn't do the WFLT until you have your stuff down. It is easier than LF, but it is hard'ish to bail off of because it is the steepest wall in Yosemite. You basically have to down aid, which is time consuming. I would pick something on the Column with an easy retreat. The SFWC is a good option because there are HUGE ledges on it which reduces the overall commitment, and you only need to haul four pitches. After that, maybe Skull Queens as it has a bit of C2+ or the Prow. The Prow is a good simulation of El Cap because it is very steep, fairly sustained at C2, and you need a ledge. Do a few Vs and you will be ready for LF. I'll be back in a few days and maybe we can do Ten Days After or something if you want.
Eastvillage · · New York, NY · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 80

Ernest Shackleton

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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