Critique my mountaineering layering system

c+

Tips for clothing that work for me (especially to keep things simple and light):

-The thinner the base layer (bottom and top), the drier your skin will stay - which is the whole point of a base layer - getting moisture off your skin. If you need to be warmer, beef up your insulation layer.

-You need much less insulation if you wear a lightweight windproof layer. Wind can suck heat out of your clothes really fast.

-As said above, fleece is heavy and hard to dry. If its cold enough that you need an insulation layer while moving, you might be better off wearing a thin synthetic puffy as an insulation layer.

-You shouldn't need waterproofs unless for some reason its raining. If you need to, just carry a super light and cheap shell jacket in the bottom of your pack just in case. If your clothes are super breathable and you stay moving, your body heat dries you off faster than you can get wet while its snowing or sprinkling. If it is raining too hard, put your light waterproof on and slow down so you don't soak yourself from the inside.

-When stopped throw on a big puffy to keep that generated heat from leaving. Down is lighter, warmer, and compresses better but if conditions might be wet or there are alot of pointy things around, wear synthetic.

-For legs, lycra or thin breathable softshell over a baselayer. Legs produce alot of heat so don't need much in the way of insulation or shell unless you're stopped or moving slow. Might be worth carrying a light side zip waterproof shell you can throw on if you expect to be standing around alot or wallowing in deep snow. I find wallowing in mostly dry snow I still stay dry in just lycra.

-Its way quicker to regulate or fine tune temperature by removing or donning gloves, hoods, hat, or buff and pulling up or down sleeves than it is to shed or gain a layer.

-Midlayer insulation is a horrible way to regulate temperature because it takes forever to put on and take off a layer that goes on underneath another. Insulation best goes on top.

Putting it all together, the layers I use are:
-Thin merino (150 weight) or synthetic long sleeve base top
-Marmot Driclime jacket (windproof layer lined with wicking pile layer)
-Thin synthetic running tights
-Thin softshell pants

This system will keep me warm and dry over an enormous temperature range if I stay moving. I vent with the main zipper on the driclime and by pulling up the sleeves. If it gets really warm I also pull up the sleeves of the long sleeve or take off the driclime.

In my pack I will always carry:
-Sub 4 ounce windshirt (Montbell Tachyon, CAMP Magic, etc) as an emergency windproof layer when its really blowing on ridges 'n stuff.
-Down or synthetic puffy (first thing in the pack) for ANY time that I'm stopped

In my pack I will sometimes carry depending on expected conditions:
-Superlight synthetic puffy for when its cold even when I am moving
-Shoeller softshell jacket if I'm going to be rock climbing (more to protect the other layers and add a little more warmth and protection since I'll be moving slower).
-Light rain jacket
-(rarely) waterproof side zip shell pants. Nice thing about using these on top of tight softshell pants is it gives you more versatility than just wearing a heavier pair of lined pants by themselves on the days you think it will be cold.

Wyatt,
Thanks for the long explanation. I don't have a lightweight windproof layer so that may be something to think about in the future.

David,
I will probably eliminate my short sleeve t-shirt and go with a long sleeve top to keep the sun off.

Still evaluating the super alpine gore-tex shell and what could be substituted to lower bulk and weight.

sell the super alpine and buy any softshell made with neotech or polartech powersheild pro, or dry Q elite.

then you dont need a hardhsell, and have a garment that actually breathes super well.

I love the hard shell. It is perfect all by itself for ice climbing in the teens.

Other than the weight, I can't find any other major negatives. How much less does it really breathe compared to a softshell?

Not to mention the material is burly and has already taken a lot of abuse this season with no signs of wear.

randy88fj62 wrote:I love the hard shell. It is perfect all by itself for ice climbing in the teens. Other than the weight, I can't find any other major negatives. How much less does it really breathe compared to a softshell? Not to mention the material is burly and has already taken a lot of abuse this season with no signs of wear.

I'd lose the hardshell too. Those are a total waste of weight unless you are climbing in the rain. Get something that insulates and sheds snow and a little water, like a down/synthetic jacket or softshell.

You can use the other clothes that you brought to climb in the teens, you don't need a dedicated item to make that happen. It doesn't really count as all by itself if the rest of your real clothes is still carried in your backpack.

I agree that having certain articles of clothing that rarely come out of the pack are counter productive to an efficient pack weight and the overall success / enjoyment of a backpacking mountaineering weekend.

I'd like to zero in on top layers for a moment.

long sleeve polypro
Patagonia R1 Hoody
Patagonia Nano Puff
Patagonia Super Alpine Hard Shell
MH Nilas Down Jacket (the down is treated with waterproofing)

The Nilas jacket is for unexpected bivies or long breaks.
The pat hard shell is for crappy weather and rain.
The long sleeve shirt is a little baggy and is easy to roll up sleeves to regulate heat while moving.

I also have:
MH sythetic buff to keep sun off neck or MH balaclava for colder conditions to aid the layers listed above.

In the Sierra a thunderstorm is not uncommon so a shell of some sort is needed. I have an MEC rain jacket with pit zips that is lighter than the patagonia hard shell but it doesn't breathe well at all.

So, anyone care to list their 5 piece layering system for general backpacking mountaineering weekends where the weather generally won't dip below 20°F at 11,000 ft basecamps and ascents will be made around 14,000 ft?

My system sounds a lot like what you're already doing.

- Thin synthetic base layer (short sleeve running shirt for summer, long sleeve Cap 2 for winter)
- R1 Hoody (Can't get enough of how awesome this piece is)
- Arc'Teryx Beta SL jacket (Pretty light, waterproof, windproof, breaths fairly well)
- Big Puffy Down Coat (Stays in the pack most of the time. Sleeping with it allows me to bring a lighter sleeping bag. Also makes hanging out at camp, cooking, belaying, etc. more enjoyable.)

FWIW, I have the Super Alpine jacket as well, and while I love it, I pretty much only use it when I go ice climbing due to its weight and size.

weight of your baselayer is really dependent on where youre climbing. and what time of year.

superkick wrote:weight of your baselayer is really dependent on where youre climbing. and what time of year.

Early spring and summer in the sierra. Nights don't get below 20°F and snow storms can occur but are rare. Light thunderstorms every day in the afternoon for an hour or so are common.