New Ice Tool Video Review of all the Petzl Tools! This really rocks!

Great video as is the Petzl scottish climbing vid.

youtube.com/watch?v=tK19OmN…

Few faults on Petzl gear and my choice in tools and crampons the majority of the time. But there is no lack of good ice gear these days.

Bang wrote:Sorry for stealing your post for a minute, so if one files down the front teeth, will that compromise the tools' mixed climbing ability?

At the top end yes, most certainly. If you are asking here, likely no for your use. No harm in that either. Just the way it is.

Modifing the pick and why?

coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

Dane wrote:At the top end yes, most certainly. If you are asking here, likely no for your use. No harm in that either. Just the way it is.

Thanks Dane! Btw, can one put the cascade pick on the new Quark or Nomic?

I don't understand what the 'benefit' is of someone 'hooking' their leg OVER their arm when ice climbing! ??

Can someone explain this move to me?

It's been about 20 since I ice climbed - back in the late 80's and so. Leg Hooking Move

Bang? Yes you can modify the older Quark Cascade pick to use in the Nomic or newer Quark. 2 minutes on a grinder if you know what you are doing and don't require a carabiner hole in the head of the tool. More effort than it is worth if you want that hole.

Figure 4? If the last time you climbed ice was 20 years ago, likely you not be needing a Figure 4 :)

A pair of Nomics and a full rack of Helix will WOW your ice world as is.

The idea (for the most part) is to get your weight on your arms when there is nothing for your feet. Up there with one arm pull ups...nice if you can do them. But not everyone need apply.

youtube.com/watch?v=C3joZcC…

Thanks!
Yes that kind of move is way more 'advanced' then I def have the need for yet! LOL.

I have climbed with a pair of Viper's last week and just added the Nomic to my collection as I have always wanted one of them as well. The Viper's worked extremely well versus the Grivel's and such that we had back in the early 90's - tho the Grivel 45 cm's were pretty damn good at that time with their 'Terrordactyl' picks that were just coming out back then. I climbed Grivel step in crampons (G2's maybe?) and Footfangs back then and had good luck with both as well.

But I have to admit - I was completely blown away placing one of the newer BD Turbo ince screws versus the old Chouinard screws we had back then! Man! What a diff!

First off? Welcome back Michael!

I climbed many of the early Canadian 5s and 6 in the late' 70s and early '80s. First time I saw a decent screw go in @ the turn of this Century, I bitched at my partner to "at least put in a decent screw if you ar going to bother stop and place one!"

It went in so fast and so easy I figured it had to be shite!

So I have literally seen it all for water fall climbing..beginning to date.

Get a pair of Nomics and some Grivel Helix ice screws. It will save you going through a lot of other stuff and ending up there anyway. Find the boot that fits you best..there is a bunch of good ones available from the usual suspects. Crampons? They have sadly gotten worse, not better.But most are decent...just not great. Hard to beat the old rigids. Rambo likely the only one up to par with a Footfang for climbing steep ice. But not it aint just steep ice. Petzl does a great job on crampons as well. Then there is the stretchy and super warm, super light weight clothing that is waterprrof and actually does breath.

If you want a fun read of how I went from a pair of Chacals to a Nomic you might like this :) The CT blog is basically all the stuff I have learned or thought about in the last 40 years of ice climbing. I'd bet it isn't far off from what you have been thinking lately.

coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

Dane,
Thanks for the info. Yup - you're absoultely right. We both climbed during an era where Low Hummingbirds were 'the thing' as well as Footfangs, SMC or Chouinard rigid crampons. And damn did they work! Some guys loved Footfangs - some hated them. I personally - liked them and have seem some brand new ones hit eBay for sale on and off. My FAV hamemr was a short Forrest Mjollor (sp?) that Bill Forrest made. I'd give anyhting to find another one now - just to have as a 'backup tool' and for my collection. I also still have some brand new Lowe/Camp SNARGS!

OK, this is what I use now for my ice gear:
Koflach Degre boots
Petzl Vasak crampons with steel bail step in bindings (love them) - but I am not yet convinced (I know I am gonna get flack for this statement - and I AM NOT trolling here) - that vertical configurated front points are the way to go yet. yes I know they mimic the picks on our ice tools and THEY work perfectly - must still be my Old School ways of thinking I guess.
1 BD Viper hammer
1 Petzl Nomic (first tooth filed off as shown in the Cold Thistle video)
North Face Gore Tex jacket
North Face fleece jacket
Fleece 1 pc Sallopettes (sp?)
Marmot Gore Tex Bibs
Nike 'Cold gear' type underwear

Thus far my skills are coming back to me again - slowly. I ahd my best friend break his ankle in the early 90's when I used to climb when he fell (I was not with them that day cli,bing) and his crampon snagged the ice on the way down and snapped his ankle. A risk we all know and assume for ourselves.
I ahd just gotten married at the time, bought our first home, as was not willing to 'lose it all' risking that happening to ME. he was self employefd and out of work for 6+ weeks with NO income. That and the hospital bill financially really set him back thousands of dollars. That was why I stopped climbing when I did....

I took rock climbing lessons from Don Mellor and ice climbing lessons from Jm Cunningham - both climbers who out up 1st ascents here in NY and NH - both wrote climbing guidebooks to the Adirondack's (where I learned to climb) and were great guys and teachers (as well as climbers).Back then I owned Chouinard 12 pt rigid crampons (old neoprene strap version) then I went to Grivel G2's (I think) that were a step in rigid crampon with the NEWER wire 'ski type' step in binding - and loved them as well. No dicking around with crampon straps again! LOL.

Back then all the ice tools had straight handles, Alpine type picks, tho drop picks were JUST starting to appear on the market. Forrest had one on his Mjollor hammer that I had a liked as well. The 'Rest as they say is history' now...

I def like my BD Viper hammer thus far and now ready to try out the Nomic. Should I find I like the Nomic better I will put my Viper on here for sale and then get a 2nd Nomic and run with 2 of them!
Thanks for the info...I will def check it out.

Don't stop at just the first tooth. Undercut the first four or five teeth as well.

One other piece of advice: don't take everyone's advice. Go out, climb, and figure out what works for you. Climbing ice or rock is a personal experience and what works very well for one person may not work for others.

Have fun!

Oh and get rid of those double plastics. Haha.. Seriously try La Sportivas or Scarpas leather boots. You think tools and screws have come a long way try climbing in a pair of Trangos or Guides. You can demo boots at any Ice Fest.

I know what they say about opinions right? They like as$holes. Everyone has them and they all stink! It's mountain project..

Very impressive article Dane and makes a LOT of sense.
I too agree that if someone is gonna climb higher than the average of 70m - you'd be an idiot NOT to put a umbilical on your tools. Now I know manywilll disagree - but as you say - WHY take that chance of ruining a climb and having to rap off and descend, ruin a friendship, ruin a day of climbing, loss of a tool, etc. Just not worth it and from a safety standpoint as well either. When a guy drops $250-300 on ONE tool today - buying a 3rd tool to be your backup tool is a pretty expensive endeavor. Shite - a homemade umbilical is cheap!

letelt me ask you - I have had this discussion with a EMS employee at length. What do Yrecommendned as THE best way to make an umbilical?
Accessory cord? Sewn runner? Tied runner?

Kirby1013 wrote:Don't stop at just the first tooth. Undercut the first four or five teeth as well.

Wow THAT many Kirby???

I wanted LaSportiva boots but didn't have $510 this year to drop on them when the Koflach's brand new were a mere $300 on sale! I don't get out half as much as I'd like ice climbing winters due to my job being an RN and working more winters b/c we see SO many elderly folks coming in the hospitals sick as hell with the flu, pneumonia, COPD, etc.

Dane - a employee at EMS told me about making a neat umbilical out of shock cord inside of 1" tubular webbing. From what I recall - he said he made his by threading a predetermined length of shock cord inside of the webbing and somehow tying knots or loops in the ends so the webbing was like 'crunched up' and short when not needed but if weight was applied to it then the shock cord would then stretch out to the length of the webbing.

I dunno if this even makes sense or is worth the hassle to make one of them versus just a fixelengthgh of webbing or cord from the bottom of the tool to the harness?

????

Yo. This is done pretty easily with some tubular webbing and shock cord. One of my buddies made a real nice set, with some of those tiny full-strength carabiners at the attachment point to the tools. This will be much better than a fixed length of webbing without shock cord as it will tuck it semi-out of the way when not engaged, but will still be full length and full strength when necessary.

Ben Brotelho wrote:Yo. This is done pretty easily with some tubular webbing and shock cord. One of my buddies made a real nice set, with some of those tiny full-strength carabiners at the attachment point to the tools. This will be much better than a fixed length of webbing without shock cord as it will tuck it semi-out of the way when not engaged, but will still be full length and full strength when necessary.

Thanks Ben,
So do you have NAY idea HOW this is made using those components? How much shockcord & webbing? How the shockcord is knotted, etc?

Kirby1013 wrote:Don't stop at just the first tooth. Undercut the first four or five teeth as well.

Cut off the first 6 inches of the pick, it'll never get stuck.

1973 after an ascent of Cascade waterfall WI3. Temp -30C and dropping but no wind. My second water ice lead, Sniveling gully had been the first a few weeks earlier.

Screws?, 6 total, 4 Salewa and 2 Charlet corkscrews. Rope 150' Eldelrid, biners are forged Chouinard Ds. Wool everything except for the down sweater and Chouidard Supergaters. Trappeur Pro single boots inside those gaiters, Dachstein mitts. Troll, Whillains harness, Chouinard rigid crampons, Chouinard alpine hammer and a 55cm Chouinard bamboo axe.

Seldom had more fun on the ice since. But this would likely be one day I did recently.



Right hand side of Weeping Wall, WI5, -15C and windy, Nomics, Dartwins, Scarpa 6000, Petzl Hirundos harness, 8 short Helix and 8 Mammut screams with Trango lwt biners and 60m Beal Ice Twins. Clothing is all synthetic, NWA saloppettes, Westcomb Neoshell Shift. OR Lumminary gloves.

Umbilicals? Grivel, Blue ice or chop the biners off the BD version and add anything better...as everything is. The webing on all three is hydrophobic and stronger than anything you'll make short of 1" webbing and a lot more managable. money well spent imo.

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013/02/another-critical-look-at-ice-tools-and.html

Michael.. Just making a suggestion on boots. Totally understand about dropping all that coin. Nepals will make a nice difference though. Buy umbilical cords if you have $50. The BD ones stay out of the way more than the homemade ones. But what do I know.. I climbed Weeping Wall leashless

Ray.. To each their own when selecting equipment or detuning picks. I don't know how many times I've heard "Are you sure I'm suppose this much off" when someone's new with a file. Trust me if you don't like it I'll buy you new picks.

Dane.. I thought that right side of WW was a 6? That right side with the cave looked crazy stout last time I was there. We went up left, the easiest way! Hahaha..

Okay thanks I'll check into them.