2:1 Haul Setup - Rate my rigging

Good laughs and good info and photos in this post! It is gratifying to hear that some of you Young Bulls really do know the Story of the Young Bull and the Old Bull.

Now Hudon and I are both Old Bulls - we do indeed win by attrition. Currently he is in a state of winning [by recruiting the Young Bull Cheyne to drag him up Shortest Straw] whilst I sit with a can of beer in Yosemite Village having bailed. Might have had something to do with a Young Bull, but then again, maybe knott.

So I think I'll start at the top, answer the questions in order, and then I will add some *new stuff* that probably wasn't included in that old Climbing Mag post. I will comment on some of the Big Wall Theory above, and offer suggestions to improve efficiency. I just climbed Grape Race and led most of the pitches, meaning I also hauled most of the pitches, using the 2:1 up a rather horrific low-angle slab. But it's a decent route, not very hard, really. So this season I am at least 1 fer 2.

Chongo invented this system, and I haven't seen him since I put the Tech Tip in Climbing Mag, I did apologize to him for not crediting him in the mag article. That was an oversight. Chongo knows stuff, and a hundred bucks for his big wall book will save you a thousand bucks in effort. Mention my name when you order it.

In almost every situation, a 3:1 haul is overkill. While you can make a 3:1 hauling ratchet [see Chongo's book] most people put the pulleys right on the haul line. This is a colossal pain in the ass - hard to set up, and you have to keep doing this "reset" which in certain situations like where there is a ledge or rub point close to your anchors, almost impossible. Accordingly, you need to stick to the 2:1. You should, however, have the 3:1 arrow in your quiver. I remember soloing Native Son when my pigs swung round an arete, and the 2:1 wouldn't budge them. Similarly high on NA Wall - or maybe the Ranch? - I needed that extra leverage of the 3:1. Rare but every now and then, well, you know.

And yes, it's a Zed Cord. We speak the Queen's English here, eh?

The 2:1 Hauling Ratchet consists of two components. The first component is your "Holding Ratchet" which is your "compound pulley" using Chongo parlance. This could be a Pro-Trax, Mini-Trax, Wall Hauler, Kong Block-Roll, Micro-Trax, you name it. They all work. Whatever you use for a 1:1 hauling system will work. The key point to remember here is it doesn't matter a Donkey's Dong* what type of compound pulley you use, because in the 2:1 it only holds the rope. So its efficiency is irrelevant. Get it?

If you get it, proceed to the following paragraphs. If you don't get it, you'd better ask.

• I just made up that term. Like it?

The thing about the Hauling Ratchet is that it is really its own backup - if the Zed Cord were to break, you have the holding ratchet = compound pulley holding everything. But if the compound pulley were to fail, you still have everything held with the Zed Cord. So generally speaking, no backups are required.*

The time you should have a backup is when you are space hauling. This means that someone is jugging the free end of the haul line to apply additional counterweight, be it 1:1 hauling, or be it using the Hauling Ratchet on top of the 1:1 hauling. In this case, you should pass a Yates Screamer around the haul line, just in case the main pulley = holding ratchet = compound pulley fails. As well, the dude [or dudette] jugging the free end of the haul line should be tied in with a separate "Hose Line" = backup. So he sits on the rope and applies counterweight while the hauler operates the 2:1, until such time as he lowers twenty or thirty feet to the end of his backup, at which point he shouts "Hosed!" and begins jugging the haul line. The hauler takes this opportunity to rest. While applying counterweight, the space hauler counterweight dude should be "pulling himself down the weighted haul line" as he drops. Each pound he pulls up on the weighted haul line adds two pounds of force to the system, because it decreases the weight of the pig by a pound while adding a pound to his own downward force. He should also pull the weighted haul line outwards to reduce friction on the rock.

Oh geez, how many walls have I done? Guesses, please. The closest gets a beer on the bridge! More significantly, what is the number of nights I have spent on El Cap? Big number lately. What this proves is that I know how to haul - I mean, I *really* know how to haul stuff.

Now buddy's 2:1 at the top of the page is actually pretty good, with a couple of exceptions. First, Mark has already described why the Ropeman is no good for the inverted ascender. I have never tried this, so didn't know the answer. Mark does a pretty good job doing most of my work for me these days, thus sparing me the bother, but fortunately he still needs my editing skills. This, combined with the fact that he likes writing trip reports and refuses to retire from big wall climbing and is super generous and a nice guy, virtually ensures a lifetime supply of Hood River Coffee. I enjoyed a nice brew of that stuff this morning. He even made up my own PTPP Blend with a picture of me on the label and everything!



Now the Frost Draw thingy that I spoke of in the old Tech Tip is almost impossible to find any more, but you could substitute a wired stopper in its stead. Basically you're just trying to minimize the amount of Zed Cord in the system, and keep the pulleys close to coming together below the inverted ascender cam. Really, it's not all that critical. I use only the Kong Block-Roll for hauling, as it is far and away the best hauling device, and because it is big [and klunky, but damn efficient] you don't need to lower it. But I wouldn't get all hung up about the Frost Draw thingy. FAR more important are a couple more things I will talk about below, which are pulley orientation, which pulley goes where, and something about practising.

Voice of Spanish Inquisition: "Three things! There are THREE things!"

For buddy's top photo, replace the Ropeman with either the gold Petzl Ascension [handled] ascender, or even a Petzl Basic, which is what I use. The Basic is so small, I just leave it on. The Ascension is nice because it has a handle.

Throw away that P.O.S. Pro-Traxion! Do you know how many parties I have met at the base of El Cap who have bailed because that crappy thing has failed?! Get yourself a Kong Block-Roll for 1:1 hauling. If you can't find one, email me, I can probably get you one. The Eye-Talians must row them across the Atlantic, but every few months I can get you one.

Now Mark may be the Self Declared Master at hauling, and for a necky little bugger he sure can haul a lot of stuff, but believe it or knott, there are a number of improvements that can made to his setup. Note that his setup works for him, and the Better Way is whatever works best for you, so who am I to criticize? But if this is to be the definitive textbook scenario, then let's examine his setup:


1) Mark's Holding Ratchet is a Mini-Trax. This is as good as anything, but as described above, it doesn't matter a Donkey's Whatever what device he uses. But it's hanging too low! [Donkey Dongs do that, you know] Look at how much Zed Cord there is between his anchor and the inverted ascender pulley! So much extra cord - just knott needed.

2) I like his Basic

3) I love his coffee.

4) The blue Ascension handled ascender on the free end of the haul line is great because you can grab it to pull yourself up, and pull the haul line through the Mini. Note that with your other hand on the inverted ascender, by pushing down on the Basic, you can pull yourself up each stroke with a 2:1 mechanical advantage.

5) The 5.5mm static Spectra cord is emphatically KNOTT recommended by Dr. Piton! While *in theory* it is great because it does not stretch, in practice the stuff is scary because IT BREAKS. If you have ever snapped your hauling ratchet cord, you will know what I mean! I strongly recommend you use 7mm perlon, as it is far less likely to "surprise" you. The reduction in efficiency is negligible, and I almost think that the stuff is more efficient than Spectra because it bends more easily.

6) There is NO sixth thing!

7) No poofdahs, especially on my portaledge, mate

Now, let's talk about pulleys.

Here is your Dr. Piton Question of the Day: You have two pulleys for your hauling ratchet Zed Cord - a "good" pulley, and a "not so good" pulley. Which one do you put on top, and which one do you put on the bottom? This is FUNDAMENTAL. Stay tuned next week - same Bat-Time, same Bat-Channel.....

OK, so now we're talking about pulleys on the Zed Cord. We have already determined that it doesn't matter a Donkey's Dong* which type of device you use as your Holding Ratchet. But does it matter which pulley you use where on your Zed Cord?

Answer: Arrange the following words into a well known phrase or saying:

"Yeah"

"Hell"

OK, so why? Answer - Frig, I don't freaking know! Do you know how many beers I've had today??? OK Ok, I think it has to do with how many spins the pulley makes. The top one spins more, so it has to be better, right? This sounds good *in theory* but does it translate to real wall experience?

Accordingly, Dr. Piton set up the following test in his basement. We took the regular 2:1 Chongo Hauling Ratchet, and we checked the position of the "good" pulley vs. the "bad" pulley. Each has its place, both on the wall and in the basement. Sort of like "good" girls and "bad" girls. [Either you get it or you don't]

So in the interests of science, we replaced one pulley with a carabiner, and considered the carabiner to be the "bad" pulley.

In photo #1 which you see below, the "bad" pulley = carabiner is on top of the Zed Cord:

Dang. Sorry. Wrong photo. That was a different scientific experiment. However, do I have your attention???

OK, here's the right photo:



Here we have buddy as a counterweight, and I have put the "bad pulley" = carabiner on top, and the "good" pulley [the blue one] on the bottom. As you can see, I and my crab are pulling rather hard, but to no avail.

Next, we put the "good" blue pulley on top, and the "bad pulley" = carabiner on the bottom, and here you can see the result:

Pretty casual, eh? So put your "good" pulley on top, and your "not good" pulley on the bottom.



See? Clearly, it's the Better Way.

OK, so far, so good, eh?

JP just poured me a margarita. Sheesh. Talk about drowning one's bail sorrows, eh?

Anyhoo...

Incidentally .... does anyone know what happened to Ricardo ... ? He used ... to use ... a lot of ... ellisions...

The Croll is the ultimate ascender for Jugging the Froggy Way, which is far and away the Better Way to ascend a free hanging rope. It was developed by cavers - Petzl - and if you ever want to know how to ascend a fixed rope, ask a caver. Cavers - pale anemic offspring from the darker world - have nothing better to do with their time than perfect their jugging systems - under bridges, in caves, etc etc. The Croll is fundamental. Somewhere on this forum is the post. Could someone please provide the link? [thus sparing me the bother]

Right. Where are we?

Right. Zipping. I can't believe that anyone would carry a 2:1 with them on lead! I use a 7.8mm Bluewater half rope as a zipline, which is sufficient to haul the gear piggy, and the top[s] of the haul line[s]. The 2:1 is right on top of the gear piggy. I figure if I have a partner, he can zip stuff up to me. I hate wearing heavy stuff. However it is definitely faster, if you are stronger and burlier than me.

Mark can free climb and everything. Except when he doesn't manage his finger strength accordingly, and can't pull the easiest stuff [for him]. This was very YB-ish of him, and is a reminder to you all that you can only do what you can only do. It was smart that Mark called for a toprope when he was toasted. But stuff happens, right?

Greg - if you tell the YB and the OB story on the bridge, I owe you a few Cobras!

Oh, thank goodness I have reached the bottom of the post. Hmm, now I have to think of a few things:

Thing #1) Put a pair of non-locking carabiners on your Zed-Cord in a clove hitch, and attach these crabs to your belay doughnut. This will allow you to "fine tune" your hauling ratchet stroke to the ideal length

Thing #2) Practise! Practise! Practise! This is not as intuitive as you think! Go to your favourite crag, and practise hauling bags of rocks. Choose rocks with smooth curves, not sharp corners, and make sure your pig is lined with closed cell foam. When you finish hauling, practise rappelling with a heavy load. You *do* know how to do this, right? Rapping with two or three times your body weight? If knott, ask. Set up a separate post here, and email me.

Thing #3) Positioning of the pulleys, Zed-Cord and holding ratchet aka cmpound pulley is critical. There are four possible orientations - three are wrong, and one is right. So figure out what I mean.

Thing #4) You really need to figure out the Better Way to position your body when 2:1 hauling. Are you standing in aiders, or on a ledge? If you are on a ledge, where is your 1:1 hauling device located? Generally speaking, you may equalize a couple of bolts, and set your hauling device on this power point. Say the bolts are six feet above the ledge, but when you equalize them, your hauling device is now only three feet above the ledge. What this means is that your haul line now runs over a much sharper edge. Instead, consider putting the hauling device right on the bolt carabiner [always use a separate carabiner to maintain degrees of freedom!] and hauling straight off the bolt. Obviously, choose a "good" 3/8-incher. And then you should connect your hauling bolt to the other bolt, just in case.

Thing #5) Got any questions? Just ask. This is the place.

Thing #6) There is NO sixth thing!

Thing #7) Um.......

Thanks for the input so far.

I noticed the recent activity in this thread and thought I would post up my updated hauling setup. Between my initial post and now I was able to do the first three pitches of the South Face of Washington Column up to dinner ledge. My mentor had a bruised toe so I lead all three pitches and hauled all three. It was my first time in a true big wall situation and it was tough yet enjoyable. I drank/needed too much water and aided too slow but I assume that’s how we all start out?

Here is the setup I plan to use for my gf and I when we make an attempt at our first wall this September. I am assuming its ok to use rapides? (climbing rated, not home depot.) They are used widely in caving and other vertical activities. I did this to reduce bulk and weight. The only downside is that the system cannot be taken apart on a moment’s notice and altered without pulling out a wrench. I used a petzl croll instead of a basic because that is what I own. I removed the WC Ropeman II from the setup because it required that the user remove the ascender from the system each time you are installing and breaking down. This creates a risk of it being dropped.

I do not know the efficiency of the camp pulley that I picked up for cheap so I’m not sure which one to put where. I will need to check that and compare it to the petzl prusik minding pulley I have on there.

Any critique or thoughts on this setup?

nice 40's!!!!

tex wrote:nice 40s!!!!

^^^True dat.

"Pass the Pitons" Pete Zabrok wrote:Voice of Spanish Inquisition: "Three things! There are THREE things!"

"Amongst our weaponry are such elements as: fear, surprise and 40-inch bosoms..."

Randy,

Your quick-links are really not needed. Sure, they are plenty strong and they are safe since you can not accidentally unclip them but a locking biner will do the same thing and is far, far lighter.

You don't need the rigging plate and I would replace it and add a large biner that spans your red pulley. Either that or hang the Mini-Trax on a short sling from the same biner as the upper pulley so it hangs directly below it. With your present configuration, you'll be amazed and bummed at how the rig see-saws back and forth and causes you to loose a few inches with every pull and relax.

Get good pulleys and put the best one on top.

As far as putting the best pulley on top, imagine this:

You know that the upper pulley does not in any way contribute to the 2:1 mechanical advantage don't you? The upper pulley is merely changing the direction of the pull. If the lower pulley were 100% efficient and the upper pulley were only 95% efficient, your system would be only $95% efficient. If the upper one was 25% efficient your system would be only 25% efficient.
If the lower pulley was 25% efficient and the upper one was 100% you would still be only 25% efficient. You can see that the upper pulley can not effect the total efficiency of the system and can only detract from it.

I have an SMC 2" ball bearing rescue pulley as my top one and an SMC 1.5" ball bearing Mini as my lower one. Me, at 125 pounds, has easily hauled 300 pounds with my 2:1 system.

One point that a lot of people miss is that when you push down on your lower rope grab, you need to push down HARD so that there is NO slack in the system when you sit back down and weight the system. Your "Zed Cord" should be tight from your belay loop and all through the system. Don't forget that to haul 150 feet, your body has to move 300 feet. Every inch of slack causes you to move twice that distance before applying any force to the system. 2:1 doubles any advantages but it also doubles any errors!

I use the 2x1 described by Pete and Mark. Many thanks to you both for all of your time and effort.

Some small things I also do are;

I use an ascender on the haul line after the micro-trax. That way I can pull myself up and pull in the haul line slack at the same time. One less step = efficiency.

I also sometimes weight the Basic with some of the rack. Sometimes I am farther away from the 2x1 set up, like when I am standing on a ledge. This helps it automatically start to reset lower on the haul line. Usually as I am stepping up it will be coming down and I can grab it if I need to.

I also like to attach my other ascender to the basic with a carabiner. That way I have a good handle to grab.

Also pulling down on this line gives you mechanical advantage making the 300K air squats seem like only 150K. :)

Wes

comments on the lower ascender. Would a gibbs ascender fit into the same category as a ropeman? I've been using a gibbs on my 2:1 (which I think I've hauled all of 3 pitches total with) and it seemed to work pretty well. Should I reconfigure it to work with a petzl basic/standard petzl ascender? My chief complaint with the gibbs is that slamming it down kinda hurts my hand, but I figured I was just a pussy and needed to suck it up. I didn't notice a delay in the grabbing action on the rope.

Wes and Keenan, all of that are good ideas. That's the important part of the 2:1 system, thinking about it, fine tuning it and making it your own. You wouldn't believe all the people who tell me is a "too complicated" system, and "we couldn't get it to work" but when I ask them about it they tell me they barely worked with it before discarding it.

Is there any reason a Petzl Croll wouldn't work in place of the Basic in this system?

csproul wrote:Is there any reason a Petzl Croll wouldn't work in place of the Basic in this system?

Both will work for big wall hauling. The only difference is the croll is shaped and easily positions against your chest for ascending using the frog setup for caving.

Hudon Hauler

I built mine with lots of help from Mark. Couple changes I have coming up is to replace the ascender with a Basic, and changing out the Pro-Trax for a Mini (The Trax is behind the big pulley.)

The trick for me so far has been getting the zed-cord set at the right length. I have the far end tied into the biner that attaches to my harness, and then a clove hitch to easily adjust the length.

Haven't been able to use it much yet, but what hauling I have done is super easy. Thanks Mark!

• Extra Style Points* - Attach ladders to the Basic and an ascender on the haul side and do it Chongo style! (Not recommended if you're light with a heavy bag as you don't go anywhere.)

Regarding Randy's rig from June 22:

1) The blue pulley looks bigger and hence is probably "better" - you always want the better pulley on top because it does twice the work. See the photos above from my basement

2) You don't need the blue jug on the zed cord. You want to clove hitch the zed-cord to a pair of carabiners attached to the belay loop on your harness. Two carabiners make the clove easier to adjust. The clove allows you to adjust the length of the zed cord to precisely the right length

3) Pro-Trax REQUIRES a crab through the bottom hole! Read the damn instructions! ANY device will work here, because it is knott doing any work. Even an old school Wall Hauler is fine.

4) The upper pulley should knott have a carabiner through it at all. Put the cord right through the top of the pulley. I use a doubled hunk of supertape.

5) Good work losing the rigging plate - the rigging plate is no good, as it rocks.

Travis - that is one BFP you have on the fridge!!

You can use most any inverted ascender - Basic, Croll or [handled] Ascension. They will all work. I have a dedicated Basic which I just leave on the system. I use my Ascension when cleaning, along with either a Croll for Frog cleaning on plumb stuff, or a Grigri as an ascender on steep/diagonalling stuff.

As I think someone mentions above, you can put the handled ascender on the free end of the haul line coming out of the "holding device" which is the Pro-Trax, Mini-Trax, Kong, Wall Hauler, and then you can use it to pull yourself back up with one hand as you haul. The other hand is on the inverted ascender. When you practise this stuff, it will all make sense.

And as I have preached from the beginning, and as Mark affirms above, this is not intuitive nor particularly easy to figure out. You have to practise practise practise! BUT once you figure it out, and understand how to tweak it and fine tune it, it is an amazing system.

Hey PTPP what is the best rig to chuck hag bags off el cap? I hear you're the master! Have you made any "how to" videos?

Chucker wrote:Hey PTPP what is the best rig to chuck hag bags off el cap? I hear you're the master! Have you made any "how to" videos?

It's almost like apologizing and publically stating the error of his ways, and promising change is worthless if it keeps you from being able to make a pointless jab on a thread where ptpp is doing nothing but trying to help other people understand their systems. douche.

Kind of beating a dead horse but this is the system i have used on many a wall (20+?) 4 el cap routes ( 2 solos)

I clove the 5.5 bluewater titan chord (zed chord) to my belay at the most comfortable length. I have had the mini trax fail a couple of times on me (but i've also had ascenders, gri-gri's, cinches, and just about every other "autolocking" system fail at some point)

I use a Quad as my bigwall anchor setup and hang my minitrax setup from the appropriate higher loop and lower my bags onto the sliding master point once they get to me. This keeps the mini trax super close to the bolt/anchor piece.

very compact and light, everything on 1 biner

here it is in action!

Looks good to me, Parker.

Great thread, GREAT info! Getting ready for my first big wall this spring and after practice hauling, I see that being efficient at this, will definetly make or break you. A couple questions I have are-

What length is your Zed Cord? I see people use various materials and diameters, but I don't see a mention of the length.

Seems like most people keep their haul setup together the whole climb. Makes sense. I've searched through the threads here on to see biner preferences, but couldn't find any. Is the shape, or size more important? Obviously weight is a factor to some degree, screw lock or auto lock?

I don't see a mention of anyone using a swivel for haul bag. Is that just not mentioned or just not that important?

Also what length is your docking cord?
And not a hauling question, but what biner do people prefer for their ladders? I've used wire and solid gate both oval and pear shaped. Aside from making sure the biner is oriented on a fashion that allows the fifi to not rest on the gate side, how can you avoid this, and is it a big deal to pull on fifi from the gate?

You could easily use some 5 mil for your Zed cord, probably 10 feet is long enough. On a hanging belay, you won't need that much but on a ledge you might Mine is stuffed away right now so I can't measure it.
Keep it all ready to go in a Medium Fish Beef Bag. I can arrive at a 3 bolts, set up the anchor ready to jug and set up my haul system, ready to haul in about 15 minutes.
I always use a swivel.

My docking cords start off as 15 feet but are doubled with an 8 knot in the middle which is clipped to the haul bags. That leaves me 7 feet to dock the bags with.

Go to my Panoramas site: El Cap Panoramas and check out my Big Wall Tips sheets. I have one about haul bags and 2:1 hauling.