Help! Awesome freestanding wall..

Brian Taylor wrote:Steve86- do you think we could do the frame from above at an angle so it frames the wall from one side rather than head on? Like this? Side view

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Ian- I've been leaning the less steep way for a while now, thanks for the feedback. I'm gonna draw up another one and post it soon here.

I'm no engineer and this ain't pretty (drew it in MS paint), but this is a cheap way to build a semi-portable and sturdy bouldering wall. Maybe this helps, maybe not. Of course, it will have to look more like art if you're going to take it to burning man.

basic climbing wall schematic

Ok so i went for a complete redesign, this one's a little more thorough. I'm thinking it's probably a little more possible too.
Climbable surfaces are tan.
green would likely be tied down tarps or something to keep people from getting into the frame.
Red is a railing for the lounge

I know it's not quite 100% perfect yet, bear with me

does this overhang look reasonable now?

Positive wall on the other side, for some easy climbs too ;)

Back lounge area, just figuring out basic shapes back here
Even if you don't want to build a wall and take it to burning man, I must say, playing around in SketchUp has been fun for this.

Thanks again for feedback. :)

Edit: I should mention, right now this is 16' tall, the positive wall is about ~10' across, the overhung wall is 12' across

Now that is pretty. Well done, sir.

Pretty, sure. But I also want to make sure it's possible. I think most things in life are easier on paper than in reality.

I figure the weight of the lounge will keep anything from tipping over, provided I can make that overhung bit structurally sound.

Thanks for your diagram Jon. It made sense of some things

Brian,
You may want to consider a wine glass shape to keep the center of gravity over the support. Take your initial design and make a truncated 'V' then polar array around the base. You'll still need a wide base ring to stabilize it. You could ship it in quarters and bolt together onsite. Add a door in the narrow and ladder up inside to top.
Glen

Is the plan to make it modular - transport it in sections and assemble on site? To build it on site entirely is going to take some time. I like the design much better and it would certainly be more stable - but a pretty big job if you will have time constraints perhaps.

It seems to me that the loungers can't see the climbing installation.

Why have the lounge if they cannot see it?

Here's what I would do....

Make a 4-sided center pillar for climbing. Have the lounge surrounding it on all 4 sides, at a height of (whatever) off the ground... Put huge jugs and smaller climbing holds on the floor bottom so climbers could start up the center pillar, and then climb "underneath" the lounge.

Have some holes in the lounge floor, near the center pillar. Climbers coming up the pillar would need to climb through those holes in order to get to the lounge(which can also be accessed on outer perimeter via stairs, ladder, stacked structures or whatever).

Climbers can continue up the pillar which would top out at (whatever) feet above the lounge) or they could just get off at the lounge. People could also begin climbing at lounge level.

This has no cantilever roof like the original, but it seems that it would be very interactive. I don't see the original drawing, or revised set of them as having a relation between lounge and climbers, but in the version I described, they are very relational.

I like what Glen said above about the wineglass shape. I'm picturing section of half the wine glass, like a horseshoe shape with the bottom of the U overhanging and the two legs of the U vertical or slabbed. It would be self supporting and you could reinforce/balance the overhang thru the other two orthogonal walls. The deck is in the center of the U. From that, You could put a T on top of the U and extend it out a bit. With the T shape you could have a double-level lounge, with the part in between the walls high enough to look out over the top of the wall, and with no inside corners, people wouldnt be falling on each other.

____________|____====____| | | | | ",__,"

Something like this from the top - the === are steps

Larry, that vaguely resembles something else. lol

Not sure what your appetite for risk is for nonclimbing spectators falling off the top. I'd keep the sitting area at the top recessed a bit for safety (engineer's perspective). Also a cheap way to add stability is using tie downs (rope/stakes).

On a less serious note...add a few small windows to fight off the sieging climbers with flaming spears and hot oil.

Good luck!

I'm sketching up all your ideas and looking at which ones make sense to use, these are all great. Thanks! Will post more sketches soon

Happiegrrrl = obvious burner. Great suggestion

Ok so it seems like this is what we're building towards, It feels right. Maaybe a bit more to pad for, but that's something we can deal with. What do you guys think?

redesign

Slabby sides up the back to the lounge area, 8x11 feet up there

Quinn, if we can ever get enough climbers to come out and join us, we would totally do something like that for a main structure.

Im no engineer either but i did spend a good deal of time as a structural ironworker building and fixing bridges and skyscrapers and getting to know the stregths and weaknesses of steel.

That said i think your first idea could work, it would simply involve a base of horizontal steel beams and a bomber joint between it and the slanting overhanging part. As long as the base covers the footprint of the whole structure you are fine ( assuming that bomber joint is truley bomber). Problem is, the volume and weight of the necessary sized steel would require setup and teardown to be done with a crane and a fairly experienced crew.

My personal 2 cents- i think your idea is frikkin awesome but i also think hippygirls input about the lounge and wall being interactive is a winner. Climb to the lounge, watch climbers from the lounge.

Anyway, good luck.

Feel free to pm me regarding the steelwork if you want.

Hey Brian,

Just saw the post and was looking through some of your options. For any of your options where you have a decent cantilever (especially if you've got some 200lb drunkard throwing for the lip), you're going to need a tie down in the backspan to prevent uplift. The weight of the lounge up top will do wonders for preventing this uplift, but if you're counting on that completely, you'll have to make sure its ALWAYS full (not with everyone crowding around the lip to see if Johnny is gonna send). Otherwise, you'll just be able to count on the weight of the empty structure in to counteract that.

What are your options for connecting to the ground there? I know someone mentioned the inability to get anything too deep int he soil there?

Let me know what you've got and feel free to shoot me a PM if you've got any specific questions.

-Alex

You could also consider renting a concert truss system like this...

These things are broken down into manageable sections for transport and then bolted together on site. (Concert roadies set up and tear down systems like this night after night while on tour.) The upright columns are assembled and then the main square is lifted into place with chain hoists on the top of each column.

This kind of truss system would allow for support of an unbalanced wall design (like the first one) by using guy wires up to the trusses AND allow for concert-style lighting from all sides.

As far as the "route-setting = art" goes: I've been a setter for ~5 years and while I can see the creative side of my setting as "art", I think the real appreciation comes from the climber after they have climbed it and think to themselves, "Wow, that was a cool climb!"

Good luck with your project.

DannyUncanny wrote:That's a big cantilever. You would need a pretty heavy counter weight or some guy lines or ground anchors if you want the free end to be unsupported.

If he can get someone to park one of those huge greyhound-bus-chassis RV's next to it for the duration, that could be the counterweight.

I like the idea of making it an hourglass shape. This could eliminate the need for a huge counterweight but might need a bunch of dangerous guy-wires jutting out around where people will be stumbling around. Also, you have to think about people getting down after they send... You're latest design provides that down the slabby back.

How tall are you making this. What is the scale?

Lounge at the top is a good thought, but if it is an hourglass shape, you will have a much harder time controlling uneven weight distribution at the top edges. Combine this with the weight of the climbers on multiple sides, it could lead to some wobbling... You get the point.

I like your latest design. I think it is the most practical and aesthetic one thus far.

When is burning man? Maybe I'll put in a request to take off work... I never had much interest, but if there is going to be climbing AND fire...