Ringlock vs. thumbstack? What's the difference?

Hey, disclaimer: this is sort of a stupid. The other day I was told the jam I use in bigger .5-.75s (a la Slice and Dice or the crux of Rock Lobster) is a thumbstack. I've always called it a ringlock. Are they the same thing? What exactly is the difference?

Generally, a thumbstack is when you just barely get your thumb under your index finger. A ringlock is when it ends up under both index and middle fingers, at or about the finger tip.

i've always thought of them in the opposite - a ringlock being when it is too tight to really get your thumb under your index, and a thumbstack when you get a decent amount of your index (and/or middle and sometims ring finger) under your thumb.

ie, i would say ringlocks are a smaller size than thumbstacks.

Nick Stayner wrote:Hey, disclaimer: this is sort of a stupid. The other day I was told the jam I use in bigger .5-.75s (a la Slice and Dice or the crux of Rock Lobster) is a thumbstack. I've always called it a ringlock. Are they the same thing? What exactly is the difference?

The defnitions seem not to be perfectly universalized. However, based on the sizes of the routes in question, I would say that that person was using this definition.

In a ringlock, the joint of your thumb is bent.

In a thunbstack, the joint is straight, creating a bridge across a slightly wider crack than for a ringlock.

as long as you can climb it dont worry about it ;)

I researched that same question myself last weekend.
I came to the conclusion the ring -lock is maybe a little overhyped or perhaps hand size dependent and some people almost use the terms interchangeably.
Otherwise the general opinion seemed to be the same as slim except the thumb goes UNDER the fingers for a thumbstack camming the thumb against the crack edge for a thumbstack.
The Long/Luebben Advanced Rock Climbing covers crack climbing very thoroughly and doesn't mention the ring-lock at all I am pretty sure.

I'm not an expert but I've never used a ring lock or thumbstack (cam). My knuckles are so big from lots of finger cracks I just finger stack. My thumb isn't doing much. I know I'll have to start using my thumb more at Indian Creek as I start to go there more. I've done hundreds of routes at Jtree and Yosemite and that's been my experience. I just finger stack.

I don't know the difference either. i figure you just cram some flesh and bone in there and squeeze.

One other point - as I worked my way up through the grades in crack climbing for me it really helped to think about the technique and know when to squeeze, torque, etc. I think technique makes a huge difference in crack climbing and it helps to study the various techniques. Especially in offwidths.

my blue-collar breakdown is that if my thumbnail is gouging the hell out of my index finger, it is a ringlock. if not, then a thumbstack. i hate ringlocks, i like thumbstacks.

an odd observation - my left hand is better at thumbstacking, but my right hand is better at ringlocking. i have no idea why....

er-mah-gerd!

this might be the most pointless discussion ever.

But just to make sure I get my two cents in I better chirp up: I'm going to replace my hands with .75's and never have to worry about this differentiation again.

slim wrote:my blue-collar breakdown is that if my thumbnail is gouging the hell out of my index finger, it is a ringlock. if not, then a thumbstack. i hate ringlocks, i like thumbstacks. an odd observation - my left hand is better at thumbstacking, but my right hand is better at ringlocking. i have no idea why....

Yeah, makes sense. I guess I never differentiated between the two, figuring that my "ringlock" is just an attempt to thumbstack as best I could. It's also funny how the skin erodes from your thumb after doing a bunch of thumbstacking, leaving it oddly sensitive...

And Keenan- no more pointless than most of the other threads around here! 99% of the time they could've been answered with a simple forum or Google search. At least this one's original!

And if you really feel that way about this thread, does that make you pointless for responding to it :) ? There was a disclaimer BTW!

I have no idea what the difference is, but I'm pretty sure I know how to do both...

camhead wrote:I have no idea what the difference is, but I'm pretty sure I know how to do both...

...and that they are both quite hard.

I don't think it's a dumb question. Having climbed over 120 days in the creek, I've had this discussion with a lot of people. One thing is for certain, there is a different technique for .5 camalot vs .75 camalot (or equivalent sizes for those with other sized hands). Others may disagree but here's my take on it.

finger stack v ring lock

In a finger stack (.75 camalot for me) I use the thumb on the lip of the crack as a chock to make the crack smaller. The rest of the fingers jam between the rock on one side and the cuticle on the thumb on the other side. Like a hand stack or a hand/fast stack. You are actually stacking skin on skin to make the crack smaller. If you do it right, you will pull back the cuticle on the thumb a bit and your thumb could go numb if there's a ton of .75 on a climb. It's really hard to do this on flaring cracks and offsets. A ton of creek 12- routes have finger stacking on them.

In a ring lock (.5 camalot / grey or red alien for me / orange metolius) there is no stacking of finger on finger. It's really just a finger lock but you also put the tip of your thumb in there (inverted compared to the rest of the fingers). Adding in the thumb (vs plain old finger lock) allows you to get more opposition force and use that thumb muscle instead of relying fully on the fingers.

On rock lobster, the crux is .5s. I'm ring-locking for that section. There are one or two stacks right before the ringlocks.

were not arguing about the need for technique ... but what people want to call it ... and that doesnt really matter one bit ;)

Keenan Waeschle wrote: I'm going to replace my hands with .75's and never have to worry about this differentiation again.

Interesting thought for handicapable climbers.
Just need to find a way to wire those nerves into the cam triggers, and then be able to switch out whatever cam sizes you need for the climb.

A ring lock is when your wedding band jams... a finger stack is called 'scarpelli tips"

And I really like the karate chop..... Which is neither...but it works for me
:-)

Werner Braun- " it's not rocket science, it's crack climbing. Put your hand or fingers in, twist and pull"

claytown wrote: I don't think it's a dumb question. Having climbed over 120 days in the creek, I've had this discussion with a lot of people. One thing is for certain, there is a different technique for .5 camalot vs .75 camalot (or equivalent sizes for those with other sized hands). Others may disagree but here's my take on it.  In a finger stack (.75 camalot for me) I use the thumb on the lip of the crack as a chock to make the crack smaller. The rest of the fingers jam between the rock on one side and the cuticle on the thumb on the other side. Like a hand stack or a hand/fast stack. You are actually stacking skin on skin to make the crack smaller. If you do it right, you will pull back the cuticle on the thumb a bit and your thumb could go numb if there's a ton of .75 on a climb. It's really hard to do this on flaring cracks and offsets. A ton of creek 12- routes have finger stacking on them. In a ring lock (.5 camalot / grey or red alien for me / orange metolius) there is no stacking of finger on finger. It's really just a finger lock but you also put the tip of your thumb in there (inverted compared to the rest of the fingers). Adding in the thumb (vs plain old finger lock) allows you to get more opposition force and use that thumb muscle instead of relying fully on the fingers. On rock lobster, the crux is .5s. I'm ring-locking for that section. There are one or two stacks right before the ringlocks.

I think your picture lables are mixed up. The one you have labeled as finger stack is a ring lock and the other one is a finger stack.

Nick Stayner wrote: Hey, disclaimer: this is sort of a stupid. The other day I was told the jam I use in bigger .5-.75s (a la Slice and Dice or the crux of Rock Lobster) is a thumbstack. I've always called it a ringlock. Are they the same thing? What exactly is the difference?

The pain.. lol  a ring lock is when you can lock your fingers in the crack. For me that’s .4-.5 are money. And a thumb lock is when you have to incorporate your thumb in the crack and stack your pointer and middle on top and cam your thumb a bit to make it lock in good.