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New BD cams - rumor?

Rob WardenSpaceLizard · · las Vegans, the cosmic void · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 130

the WC helium friend #4 is almost exactly the old BD 3.5 and much lighter

MTN MIA · · Vail · Joined May 2006 · Points: 405
Rob Warden wrote:the WC helium friend #4 is almost exactly the old BD 3.5 and much lighter
I know.... I guess I am so used to grabbing the "right" color when stressing out.... I get sooo confused if my color scheme gets messed up...... Maybe it is simply the nerd in me..... :-)

But I don't think I need more in that size......really....yet....
mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885
shoo wrote:General thoughts: Not sure what the "stacked axle" tech is all about, nor really sure on which sizes there will be a double axle. The pic running around looks like single axle to me. Just have to wait and see
Curious if it has to do with how they align the axels (the axels are not in-line but rather offset from one another or "Stacked" on top) or if they terminate them at different lengths (inner lobe axel is shorter than outer lobe axel).

Agreed in the picture it's hard to tell if there are two axels or not...

Looking at the picture again it LOOKS like it could be axels of two different lengths with the inner peened end located INSIDE the outer lobes. That's kinda cool and certainly would make even the larger sizes nifty.

Stacked Axel possibilities?
Aric Datesman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 145

I'd say WTF, but frankly now that you mention it if the lobes were the same size they'd likely fall in the same plane on the right hand side, which they don't.

Interesting.

Thought I had been playing with was a riff on US Patent 6042069 (which AFAIK BD had nothing to do with), but your idea sounds pretty good too. patentstorm.us/patents/6042…

Side note, the shift noted by MattM above is what the VW VR6 thing was about... shifting the cylinders off a bit allowed for a V6 to fit in the space of a I4. Great idea, and I'm curious if this is the direction they took. That said, the offset tangent points are what caused walking problems with Maxcams, so...?

Anyway, I'm quite curious and love a bit of armchair engineering.... :-)

Aaron Moses · · Richmond, Va · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 830

I'm curious as well. My theory is that it is a single axel bent to be offset within the area of the outer lobe spring. If you look closely at the outer lobe, it looks to be two separate pieces. I suspect the small inner piece is basically a plate with one edge shaped in an arc with a center point in line with the center of the axel at the outer edges. This plate could then carry the forces placed on the outer lobe. If this is the case, I would think it would only work for small sizes. I would also suspect that the lobes are constructed of a hard alloy because the large spring cutout would result in high stresses within the lobe.

Aaron

Eric and Lucie · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 140

looks to me like it might be a single axle, but machined down to a smaller, and excentric diameter for the outer lobes... would lead to expanded range just like using two axles. Of course it would also require locking the axle securely in the head so it doesn't rotate, but that seems pretty easy (there must be a groove for the springs anyway, so a key of some sort would achieve that).
mmmhh...

Matt G · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 130
SilverSnurfer · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 5
Jake Jones wrote:The lobe attachment to the trigger in the closeup of the red cam on page 2 appear to be wires, the typical BD construction. However, the blue cam in the picture above appears to have a kevlar (or whatever that material is) coming from the lobe to the trigger assembly. Anyone else notice this? It's not a great picture, and I could be wrong, but if I'm not, and there are wires in one, and the non-metal on the other, it does raise some questions.
On the 2 prototypes that I handled a few months ago, one had the metal trigger wires and the other had non-metal wires-these could very well be those same protos, so you are seeing correctly.
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180

Looks like their traditional double axle in that picture.

Aric Datesman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 145
Ray Pinpillage wrote:Looks like their traditional double axle in that picture.
That it does. Perhaps "stacked axle" merely refers to moving the springs inside the lobes? Curious...
paintrain · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 75

It is my understanding that at a certain small size they no longer have enough room to put the axles side by side. They may have rectified it by stacking (offset maybe) the axles.

PT

S Denny · · Aspen, CO · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 20
paintrain wrote:It is my understanding that at a certain small size they no longer have enough room to put the axles side by side. They may have rectified it by stacking (offset maybe) the axles. PT
This.
Aric Datesman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 145
paintrain wrote:It is my understanding that at a certain small size they no longer have enough room to put the axles side by side. They may have rectified it by stacking (offset maybe) the axles. PT
Doesn't look in the pic, but time will tell I suppose (by which I mean I don't have a better theory)

EDIT: As for the too-small thing, that's a limit of the a combination of the stress/strain curve of the material the axles are made of and the thickness and tensile strength of the portion of the lobe around the axle, and yup, at a certain point dual axles on the same plane just won't work. Pic above makes them look like they're on the same plane, but again, time will tell...
Steve86 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 10

The wires being shorter on the BD cam should be an advantage, not a disadvantage, for the reason Will S points out. The distance from the lobes of the cam to the trigger is going to affect how easily you can place them deep -- not the length of the trigger wires.

Forthright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 110
Some Random Guy wrote: there is one big thing that stands out for me in comparing them to the master cam (assuming the above pictures are to scale and can be compared as such), the trigger wires on the master cam are almost twice as long.....meaning ur placement can go almost twice as deep if need be. looks like the X4 will only be able to do shallow placements. it seems like bd usually thinks of everything but why not this?
lol fail logic
Tim M · · none · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 293

looks kinda like a cross between a master cam and an alien.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610

If this is at the OR show it might be over a year before you see them in stores.

Looks sweet but I don't see a reason to go out and buy another set of cams.

Aric Datesman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 145

Fuel for the conspiracy-minded gear whores like me, which I just posted to ST:

Huh. Did a bit of digging just now, and that excentric-bearing cam patent (US6042069) was filed by Tony Christianson in 1998. He had previously filed another patent (US4643377) in 1985, which looks surprisingly like the original patent on the U-stem Camalot. I've not seen him named in later BD patents, but seems there might be a relationship there from the dual axle thing and the eccentric-bearing cam thing certainly fits the sound of the stacked axle thing.

Just enough of a connection there to make me really wonder if I've stumbled upon something....

Images from the Eccentric bearing cam patent:


Forthright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 110


Even though if they are only going into a red c3 size I am disappoint, but still want.

Lord the twisted "perspective" and isometeric views in patient drawings always burn my eyeballs.
Khoi · · Vancouver, BC · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 45

But don't the yellow C3 and the blue C4 cover virtually the same size range?

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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