why EVERYONE who climbs should ALWAYS wear a helmet

slim wrote:what about wearing one in the harding slot? seems like a choking hazard....

Jajajaja, no shit!

Martin le Roux wrote:Motorcyclists (unlike climbers) benefit from massive government subsidies. They're out there on roads that are built, maintained and patrolled at enormous taxpayer expense. It's pretty ironic to be complaining about government interference under these circumstances. Kind of like the apocryphal Tea-Party protester waving a sign that says "get you government hands off my Medicare".

That's just silly!

Would you complain if the government forced you to wear a helmet while driving a car? Sure you would. Seems like the government overstepping its bounds, right?

But, why wouldn't they? That law would most certainly save lives and reduce insurance premiums just as seat belt laws do.

@ Chris Miller. How are you doing? Been a long time since I've been to Joshua Tree. No offense taken Chris. You keeping that automatic weapon CLEAN? Laugh! BYW I am on Medicare now! Feels kinds funny to be that old but there is till some life in the old carcass.

Today's experience and climbing helmets...

We were climbing at the Universal Wall on Mt. Charleston, NV. For anybody who cares it is about 1200 ft of very nice limestone where we were. We had arrived, flaked the rope, racked up and I was about 4 clips up on the start of the new line; going for the high point. I didn't even hear the whir, but heard the crash and ricochet; a stone about the size of seedless watermelon had come off the rim. Fortunately it landed about 10 yards out and 20 yards left from us, bounced once and settle by a snag below. My partner is wearing a helmet. Think it would have helped save her life in a direct impact like that?

What did we do wrong? It rained yesterday and we still went climbing, me knowing some rocks could have been unsettled by moisture. Or maybe it was a deer traversing the slope on the rim...who knows? What we had going for us was a prominent overhang at about 600 ft keeping stuff from the rim off of us.

I reached the highpoint and lowered to get the drill, bolt kit, hammer, hook set up...I asked my partner to verify the clip spot was good since she is shorter than me. Got the OK and back to the high point (50 ft up), re-figured out the moves on the head-wall and pulled. Locked off and set my hook. I thought it was good but just as I was about to un-clip the Bosch the hook pulled and back I went over backwards for an unplanned maybe 10 ft fall. As I was falling I relaxed, tucked my head a bit and landed on my left buttock before the rope swung me around. The force of the space shot yard-ed my belayer - who weighs about 120 a couple feet in the air.

What did I do right? I warned her I could fall, I knew I would get a soft catch, I relaxed, tucked and my tie point was above my center of mass. With out all five components I could have hit my head today and would have needed that helmet. Instead I lowered, checked the abrasions on me and my belayer and back up to finish the lead to the first set of anchors. A great day.

As somebody that wears a helmet "most" of the time, even I think that too much government restriction is a bad thing. If somebody doesn't want to wear a helmet, that's their choice. Like with riding a bike...I always wear one if I'm out on the mountain bike or on a road bike ride, but I usually don't bother when I'm just riding around town or making the 2 mile commute to work.

Here's another example of stupidly restrictive laws I encountered today: I just redid the electrical wiring in my garage and had it inspected this morning. I hadn't installed the outlets yet, but the inspector warned me that I would need to use tamper-resistant outlets for all of the 110v outlets. I then asked about the 220v circuits that I'm installing, since I didn't even think they made tamper-resistant 220v outlets. His answer was "they don't make them, and they don't need to be tamper-resistant".

So, the 110v-20A outlets need to be tamper-resistant, but the 220v-20A outlet right beside it in the same box, or the 220v-50A welder outlet a foot away from it, don't need to be tamper resistant. The latter two are far more deadly, yet they still enforce that the less-deadly ones be more protected...sigh...

Thomas Beck wrote:@ Chris Miller. How are you doing? Been a long time since I've been to Joshua Tree. No offense taken Chris. You keeping that automatic weapon CLEAN? Laugh! BYW I am on Medicare now! Feels kinds funny to be that old but there is till some life in the old carcass. Today's experience and climbing helmets... We were climbing at the Universal Wall on Mt. Charleston, NV. For anybody who cares it is about 1200 ft of very nice limestone where we were. We had arrived, flaked the rope, racked up and I was about 4 clips up on the start of the new line; going for the high point. I didn't even hear the whir, but heard the crash and ricochet; a stone about the size of seedless watermelon had come off the rim. Fortunately it landed about 10 yards out and 20 yards left from us, bounced once and settle by a snag below. My partner is wearing a helmet. Think it would have helped save her life in a direct impact like that? What did we do wrong? It rained yesterday and we still went climbing, me knowing some rocks could have been unsettled by moisture. Or maybe it was a deer traversing the slope on the rim...who knows? What we had going for us was a prominent overhang at about 600 ft keeping stuff from the rim off of us. I reached the highpoint and lowered to get the drill, bolt kit, hammer, hook set up...I asked my partner to verify the clip spot was good since she is shorter than me. Got the OK and back to the high point (50 ft up), re-figured out the moves on the head-wall and pulled. Locked off and set my hook. I thought it was good but just as I was about to un-clip the Bosch the hook pulled and back I went over backwards for an unplanned maybe 10 ft fall. As I was falling I relaxed, tucked my head a bit and landed on my left buttock before the rope swung me around. The force of the space shot yard-ed my belayer - who weighs about 120 a couple feet in the air. What did I do right? I warned her I could fall, I knew I would get a soft catch, I relaxed, tucked and my tie point was above my center of mass. With out all five components I could have hit my head today and would have needed that helmet. Instead I lowered, checked the abrasions on me and my belayer and back up to finish the lead to the first set of anchors. A great day.

That must be one of the other Chris Millers I've heard exist out there. I'm the one from Texas.

Glad you faired ok in that fall. Awesome that you lead thru!

Regarding helmets…I was out at a newly developed single pitch limestone area near Austin yesterday. Since the area is still kinda new it's known to have some loose rock and holds breaking off from time to time. There was a bit of choss coming down, but nothing major. Nevertheless, I think there was two of us wearing helmets despite the place being pretty busy. Personally, I carry a helmet most of the time and wear it frequently. But I wouldn't fault anybody for not wearing one. It's a personal decision. We all know the risks, or at least we should.

Edited for spelling.

Well, ok maybe I don't wear it as often as I should.

I wear a helmet climbing because my partner, who's usually leading the harder stuff, may die if I get hit in the head with a rock. But whatever, that's personal choice. I don't usually wear one on my motorcycle or bicycle. Now the important stuff:

Chris Miller wrote:not everybody shares your view on socialized medicine.

Countries that share Thomas' view include every industrialized, developed nation on the planet.... except USA.

Countries that don't include Iran, Iraq, North Korea, India and China (and again, USA).

Here in the US we're paying far more for health care than countries with people who have better health.

Tell us again... why is it you don't share Thomas' views?

Chris Miller wrote: Or you could take a break from occupying Wall St, get a f*$%ken job, and pay taxes like the rest of us instead of waiting for the government to cater to your sense of entitlement.

And by the way, this advocate of universal health care HAS a job in the private industry. A job I got after receiving a master's degree in engineering AFTER putting myself through college by working in a hard rock mine. Oh, and I pay taxes, too. And student loans.

Eric Krantz wrote: And by the way, this advocate of universal health care HAS a job in the private industry. A job I got after receiving a master's degree in engineering AFTER putting myself through college by working in a hard rock mine. Oh, and I pay taxes, too. And student loans.

Tired of arguing over this.

I generally wear a helmet when outdoor now. Honestly the reason for that mostly is that my partner prefers it. When we're playing a game that requires the amount of trust that climbing does it'd be a dick move for me not to put it on just because I prefer the way my hair looks flowing freely in the breeze in pictures. lol.

Anyway, as far as any law requiring it get outa here. As human beings we need to be trusted to mitigate and manage the risks we take. We need laws, but we don't need to be hand held through life and told how to live as long as prosperous as possible. What if taking risks and living a shorter life because of it is just as prosperous to me as being a cautious fear mongerer who lives a long life because of their lack of taking risk? Then who the heck is anyone else to tell me not to? Look I'm not calling for anarchy, but if anyone wants to risk THEIR life for the pursuit of their bliss and happiness go for it. It's THEIR life to chose to do so. Educate people, be an advocate of safety, but don't require it by law. Where does it stop if we do that?

And as far as increasing medical costs or whatever that argument was, save that load of BS for the fatties sitting inside their bubbles of "safety" They're driving medical costs far more than the adventure sports community.

And if you have a helmet, why not wear it? That's how I see it. I knocked my head real good on TR when I took a swing cause I got off route. Helmet literally saved my life.. ON TOPROPE

Sam M wrote:Social medicine has proven a failure in all the countries listed above and the people are less healthy and more in debt from it with less access to premium healthcare..

You're not as well educated on this subject as you think you are.

Don't forget its use in the all important "head jam"!

The head jam is a common technique for surmounting the awkward alcove on the final pitch!

What a stupid fokin suggestion. Totally.

Sam M wrote: Social medicine has proven a failure in all the countries listed above and the people are less healthy and more in debt from it with less access to premium healthcare.

The only countries that are listed above DON'T have social health care. You get an A+ for reading comprehension.

EDIT: Did I just bite the trolling lure?

Eric Krantz wrote: The only countries that are listed above DON'T have social health care. You get an A+ for reading comprehension. EDIT: Did I just bite the trolling lure?

Yeah, I'm afraid so. Nobody cares about socialized medicine anymore. Now we're posting about how cool it is to be poor.