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Roadside Crag, RRG

Original Post
Jeremy Hand · · Northern VA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 100

Any word on access to the Roadside Crag at the Red River Gorge? The owners demanded that a route be unbolted by the original setters but a few other people said they'd unbolt it if it helped the access issue and it seems as if there were plenty of people willing to pitch in to pick up the area.

Any word?

cfuttner · · Chicago, IL · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 5

Go here. redriverclimbing.com/index.php . Search Roadside crag. You will find plenty to read. No, Roadside is not open.

Leftwich · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 10

Its open if you're willing to pay enough.

cfuttner · · Chicago, IL · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 5
Leftwich wrote:Its open if you're willing to pay enough.
I didn't want to say it.
Javier L · · Asheville, NC · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 636

can you elaborate?

Cleveland Wilson · · Villa Hills, KY · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 20
Javier Licon wrote:can you elaborate?
For a very large fee the land owner's will do a guided trip. I think you can google "graining fork nature preserve" (Roadside's real name)
Jeremy Hand · · Northern VA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 100

sounds like some dirtbag climbers tryin to make a buck at the community's expense.

rock-fencer · · Columbia, SC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 265
Jeremy Hand wrote:sounds like some dirtbag climbers tryin to make a buck at the community's expense.
sounds like a landowner that is unhappy with the way the community has treated his property
NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

I am not going to get into whether or not the closure was the right thing to do. However, I will say that I last climbed at Roadside in early 2011 the place was a mess. There are some great routes there, but the place was going downhill fast before the closure.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Didn't some climbers get together and buy the property and then close it to other climbers?

Jonathan S · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 2,113
Jeremy Hand wrote:sounds like some dirtbag climbers tryin to make a buck at the community's expense.
Nope.
camhead · · Vandalia, Appalachia · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,240

there're a lot of different facets to the roadside closing, and it's sad, since it is such a great crag. But, that said, if I owned property with a crag on it at the RRG, there is no fricking way in hell that I would leave it open to the general public.

Leftwich · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 10

So climbers bought the property. Said climbers created rules for the property and posted them on the web (people in the red love rules and definitions... maybe because they are mostly from Ohio... by the way that crimp rail is not on for this route). Said rules were not posted in a public place, nor was the website really promoted.

No one followed the rules and the place was a real shit show (kind of like Muir valley but without the nice shit house and no one putting money in a box). There was a trail day and people volunteered and it received some lovin'.

Owners came and closed down shit show. They should not have done so because other people have a right to climb there and the owners only had rights in fee simple title. WTF were they thinking?

Now you have to pay them large amounts of money to climb there. This topic has been beaten to death here.

The real question in all of this, is why aren't we talking more about Ron Snider, the guy who found Roadside, and who is like one step away from being as cool as Steve McQueen?

Leftwich · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 10
camhead wrote:there're a lot of different facets to the roadside closing, and it's sad, since it is such a great crag. But, that said, if I owned property with a crag on it at the RRG, there is no fricking way in hell that I would leave it open to the general public.
Agreed.
Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

So what is the fee there?

Sam Stephens · · PORTLAND, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 1,090
Leftwich wrote:Owners came and closed down shit show. They should not have done so because other people have a right to climb there and the owners only had rights in fee simple title. WTF were they thinking?
They were thinking, "Hey, we own this land and everyone has treated it like shit. Why should we let people that think they have the 'right' to be on private property trash our property because they have the 'right' to climb there."

Just a guess.
Leftwich · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 10
Sam Stephens wrote: They were thinking, "Hey, we own this land and everyone has treated it like shit. Why should we let people that think they have the 'right' to be on private property trash our property because they have the 'right' to climb there." Just a guess.
Fee simple is how an estate in land is held. It is the highest form of property interest that can be had outside of government ownership in our system of law. I meant what I said facetiously. They have every right to do with theirs as they wish.

I don't know what it cost. Google cave run bike shop and check their rates. I hope they get some business.
Sam Stephens · · PORTLAND, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 1,090
Leftwich wrote: Fee simple is how an estate in land is held. It is the highest form of property interest that can be had outside of government ownership in our system of law. I meant what I said facetiously. They have every right to do with theirs as they wish. I don't know what it cost. Google cave run bike shop and check their rates. I hope they get some business.
Well then, I apologize. I do a good job of putting my foot in my mouth occasionally. I thought it was some smart phone/iPad typo.
Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Ah, so it is now the exclusive domain of a guiding service.

caverunbikeshop.com/

Jeremy Hand · · Northern VA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 100

So they bought the land to ensure that access would always be available but closed it down....

They said it was a mess, trashy, eroded which is a good reason to limit access but I read on the rrg forum that there were plenty of people willing and psyched to commence a trail day...

A route had been bolted without their permission and the setter needed to contact them and remove the bolts... I'm never sure if that happened but I saw that there were a handful of people willing to go in and remove the bolts if the owners would allow them...

There were rules in affect but no one read them or abided by them because they were on a website that wasn't promoted and not publicly posted...?

It sounds like they were trying awfully hard to shut down this crag. I understand that some climbers need to be more responsible but when you have an entire community willing to pitch in and 'do the right thing' by restoring the land at some degree, trash removal, bolt removal (which were all the reasons that were posted by the owners) isn't it a little ridiculous to keep the preserve closed except to those who can throw out some big dough?

Either way, it is their land and they can do with it as they see fit.

Devin Krevetski · · Northfield, VT · Joined May 2008 · Points: 140

I've never been to the Red, but it appears to be going to Satan's domain in a carrying tote.

Its strange that the owner is offering guided trips because making people pay opens up all sorts of liability issues, I thought.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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