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what the heck is a moderate anyway?

Dobson · · Butte, MT · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 215
JLP wrote: Moderate = middle of the pack - the climbs you have to wait in the longest lines for.
This is the most useful definition this entire thread. It's not about grades, it's what most people are climbing.
Elena Sera Jose · · colorado · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 350

Moderate = non project non desperate climbs with some sits maybe but able to complete all the moves challenging enough to be interesting pumpy but not to the point of muscle failure. The bulk climbing or 70 % of climbing. Easy being 20% it recovery and hard 10% or project.

Jeremy Hand · · Northern VA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 100

CHRIS SHARMA FALLS?!

does not compute.

Moderates are slightly harder than loderates and slightly easier than hoderates but are definitely not below 12b.

5.0-5.5 doesn't exist

5.6-5.12 beginner

5.12c-5.15c advanced

Coeus · · a botched genetics experiment · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 40
Jeremy Hand wrote: 5.0-5.5 doesn't exist
I know right, maybe when there were hobnailed boots, but I have a hard time thinking that even those guys could tell the difference between 5.1 and 5.2
Jeremy Hand wrote: 5.6-5.12 beginner 5.12c-5.15c advanced
nice
RandyR · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 40
JLP wrote: Most people don't struggle on Double Cross. I've never seen a "solid 5.11" climber, even a clueless one trained 100% on plastic, struggle on any 5.8 anywhere.
Ever been on Eff Eight at J-tree? How about Dolphin? Someone who has only climbed plastic would struggle on both of those. Not DC though...that's an easy climb (as long as you have some sort of idea that you can jam hands and fists in the crack).
Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669
David Sahalie wrote:look at all the top clibmers, they never climb on plastic and are awesome at cracks, especially offwidths.
ya sure about that?
Crag Dweller · · New York, NY · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
David Sahalie wrote:let's jsut say it: if you climb in the gym you just suck at rock. look at all the top clibmers, they never climb on plastic and are awesome at cracks, especially offwidths.
i think some of the folks at The Spot in Boulder may have a very different opinion.
GonnaBe · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 135
David Sahalie wrote:let's just say it: if you climb in the gym you just suck at rock. look at all the top clibmers, they never climb on plastic and are awesome at cracks, especially offwidths.
This quote made my lunch hour! Too funny. I'm NEVER (sarcasm) jealous of the people logging time in the gyms-- nope-- NEVER (still sarcasm) :-)
YDPL8S · · Santa Monica, Ca. · Joined Aug 2003 · Points: 540

One thing that is not being addressed is how sustained and long the climb is. I would bet that most people here saying that 5.10 is moderate would be eating their words leading a 5 to 7 pitch trad climb where they have to place gear on sustained "moderate" 5.10.

Say, the Casual Route on the Diamond, or Grand Giraffe (that's a pretty casual OW), or even Turkorner in Lumpy. If those routes are "moderate" to you....great!

GonnaBe · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 135
David Sahalie wrote: ...they also proudly wear PAS.
You're enfuego today! Easy on the caring for spawn thing though... I resemble that remark!? Besides now I can just displace all my disappointment in my own climbing onto her and make sure SHE warms up on my projects eventually. This thread was pretty predictable trolling till you came along-- can't wait for the next salvo.
Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,241
David Sahalie wrote: i'd rather not talk about that. he told me he would be easy on me if I told him I saw the point of PAS.
Did he anchor you to his crotch with it?

I'm pretty sure the PAS is a sex thing, it doesn't seem to fit into climbing.

Open yer purty lil mouf, Davie.
Dan Foster · · Hillsboro, OR · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 15

Returning to the numerical theory put forth by Derek W, but including all the letter grades of 5.10a through 5.15c, I created a table of the 33 grades and then divided them mathematically with two ways of interpreting the results.

If you divide the 33 grades into 3 categories, the middle category (i.e. "Moderate) comes in at 5.10b through 5.12d, a result I found unsettling. So I broke things down further with a 4-tier system (Easy, Moderate, Advanced, Expert) that more properly landed Moderate as 5.8 through 5.11b which seems much more fitting with my own personal experience.

I tried to include a table with my results, but the Table HTML command wasn't supported. And while I concede that climbing is a complicated and subjective experience, this method at least gives a ballpark for what might be considered moderate by today's climbing standards.

Mark Mueller · · Surprise, AZ · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 185

moderate is relative to location

ben jammin · · Moab, UT · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 852

It's the same thing as a 'Standard Desert Rack'...

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264
Greg Barnes wrote:I've had a partner who'd redpointed Smith 5.13b struggle following Valley 5.7 offwidth!
I'd love to delude my ego to the same thought, but I also know that a 5.13 climber can easily layback and gaston hell out of that offwidth say at 5.10ish, but I won't be able to even get off the ground on his/her 5.13 prodj...
Christian RodaoBack · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 1,486

What are the symptoms of OCD?

...

Need for order, symmetry, or exactness

Chris D · · the couch · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 2,230
David Sahalie wrote:they also proudly wear PAS.
hahaha!

A badge of honor at the crags.
Kangaru Rat · · Under a Rock · Joined May 2008 · Points: 0
Crag Dweller wrote:When I say I want to do some moderate climbing, it can be interpreted to mean one of the below: 1) I have a hangover 2) I want to climb but I'm feeling a little lazy so I want it to be easy 3) I'm climbing with someone new and I don't trust them enough to push myself 4) I haven't been climbing as much as I'd like lately and I'm not in the mood to get on something 'at my level' and be reminded that I'm not currently 'at my level'
Ouch - The truth hurts!
Rajiv Ayyangar · · San Francisco, CA · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 220

In my experience, "moderate" is used as a polite hedge when talking to climbers of uncertain ability (or ego-fragility). It stings less when a stronger climber calls your long-term project a "moderate" then when he/she calls it "easy."

It also captures a beautiful and frustrating truth about climbing: even climbs well below your limit can be challenging, given conditions, or beta, or a host of other factors. As a friend of mine quipped this weekend (probably 3rd-hand): "Climbing: the sport where everyone sucks at their own grade."

So to understand what people mean by moderates, I recommend asking them. Brace your ego first, though.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

I concour... I have a "project" that I have been working on that is 5.9. I think of it as HARD!!! In reality it is a moderate. I just dont like being told that... I think I will go cry for a little now...

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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