Route Star Inflation

Alexander Nees wrote:I've always assumed that route stars were a local-area comparison, so that I can look at a single crag and use the star ratings to determine which routes I should try to get on when I'm at that particular crag.

I agree too. I think the only point of stars is to help visiting climbers maximize their fun when their time is limited. Rating a route in one crag versus another crag is almost like apples to oranges, it's extremely difficult to compare and futile in most cases.

And to Tony B, thank you for pointing out the 'bomb' rating here on MP, I hadn't even noticed that feature. But since I consider myself somewhat 'tech-savvy' it seems like others might not have noticed that as well. I would argue that the admins should just convert the site to 1-5 stars for ease of use and better clarity. Plus it'd be an easy conversion with the Bomb to 4 stars already in-place. The bomb is a cute idea but I think 1 star of out 5 conveys the same message and is easier to understand.

I think it's the bishop bouldering guide that has the 4 star rating setup I like the most. Basically (paraphrased from memory) it's something like:
no stars-worth checking out if you've done everything else
1 star-nice if you are in the area
2 stars-worth doing as soon as possible
3 stars-must be done if you are capable
4 stars-world class, as in belongs in a "best route of __ grade" list.

Needless to say, I've climbed a lot of places that would have no 4 star and only 2 or 3 3 star routes, but I think thats a pretty solid list. In my eyes a 4 star route has everything, great movements, sustained sequences, aesthetic appeal, good stone quality, etc.

Dan Foster wrote: And to Tony B, thank you for pointing out the 'bomb' rating here on MP, I hadn't even noticed that feature. But since I consider myself somewhat 'tech-savvy' it seems like others might not have noticed that as well. I would argue that the admins should just convert the site to 1-5 stars for ease of use and better clarity. Plus it'd be an easy conversion with the Bomb to 4 stars already in-place. The bomb is a cute idea but I think 1 star of out 5 conveys the same message and is easier to understand.

I think we need a bomb or a black hole to designate the ultra-non-classics.
You know.. black hole = sucks so hard it leaves the climbs in the area around it void of stars...

FYI - It is supposed to be local to a crag, in my opinion.
But people that only sample an area will of course over-grade.

here's the deal-e-o in the end though...
There are many users here and many rated climbs and so long as there is a "sample" and the users remain consistent in what it is that they are doing, then the climbs will have a meaning of the stars that are generally relative to eachother.
Which is good enough for me. I guess one can nit-pick about it, but we should get the general idea, right?

IE: Boulder problems that get 4*'s? Shit- they are just pebbles to me. They get a better rating that the Salathe Wall? Well, whatever. I get it - relative to BOULDERING they are 4*. And Salathe is a great wall... if you are into that sort of thing.

I shrugged when I saw J-tree used to exemplify a 4* area. Yeah I go there because it is warm in the winter, but seriously? Better than Yosemite, the Red, The Gunks, teh Daks, Seneca, etc...

To each his own. I think the system has weaknesses, but it works as well as anything I'd bother replacing it with.

Tony, I said 3 1/2 stars brother. To leave room for exactly the places you just listed...but it is of definite note in quantity and quality.
Oh no, the debate has begun! I am stopping now.

The Red is just a sport crag, one of the best, but Verdon Gorge is the only 4*... No really, I am stopping now...

Muuuu-wwahhhh hahahaha!

Most people do not have the context to rate a route in a national/world context, so the rating have to be relative to the area.

I use the bomb rating for routes that I do NOT recommend anyone climb; generally they are dangerous and do not have any redeeming qualities to compensate for the danger.

Most people probably consider it 3 or 4 if they could get up it... :)

"New rule! If you havnt climbed at least 2 dozen climbs that everyone can agree is a classic, then you cant rate climbs. "

New rule, get a life... this is MP

ryanb wrote:The routes listed on for the lower town wall at Index on mountain project are pretty much only the classics plus a few modern FFA's. There are again as many non classic pitches but no one has bothered to post them.

True, plus there are again as many classic pitches out there that nobody climbs because they only go to the LTW.

Jan Roestel wrote:Tony, I said 3 1/2 stars brother. To leave room for exactly the places you just listed...but it is of definite note in quantity and quality.

True... And I wasn't saying any were actually better. I was just saying that there is no accounting for taste, so it will only be internally consistent to an area. Much like grades...