Metolius 9 - what happened?

I just realized (obviously a very long time after they stopped) that Metolius is no longer making a #9 cam. What gives? Seems like their lineup is incomplete.

What do folks who use Metolius use in the larger sizes? Their Supercam or another brand?

the #10 (dark blue) has been out of production for a long time as well; they really weren't well designed, a #1 or #2 camalot is "wider" than my #9 4cu. They walk pretty badly and also get "askew" on a lot of placements due to a very narrow profile.

We have not been super impressed with the Super Cams, either. While more stable, they don't seem as functional as the below.

BD/WC/DMM/.../ have not used Trango or other "off" brands...

I stop using metolius at size 6, and switch over to tech friends. 7 & 8 are pretty wobbly, I assume 9 & 10 are just as bad or worse.

Josh Olson wrote:I stop using metolius at size 6, and switch over to tech friends. 7 & 8 are pretty wobbly, I assume 9 & 10 are just as bad or worse.

I own an old set of Metolius quad cams and feel the same way. Anyone know why they feel "wobbly" from a technical stand point? Are the springs not as strong compared to the C4's for instance? haven't delved too deep in comparing cams and the slight differences in their designs.

Josh Olson wrote:I stop using metolius at size 6, and switch over to tech friends. 7 & 8 are pretty wobbly, I assume 9 & 10 are just as bad or worse.

No clue about the feeling of 7 and 8 feeling wobbly, or the 8 and 9 for that matter. BD 5 and 6 are wobbly if you ask me, but otherwise I've never had a problem with any cam feeling unstable.

I think any of the larger cams are going to feel wobbly. The way I see it, More surface area of the lobes against the rock and most likely a longer stem potentially means more walking caused by simple rope movement, leverage, and such. Any physicists care to chime in here? I use mostly metolius cams, including the largest sizes (10) and also have some large BD's and they act the same.

I've had the full set up to #10 since 1999 and don't think the larger sizes are an issue, Then again, I may just be used to them.

I haven't used many of the other brands (outside of BD) but I think cams at that size just start to feel more unstable no matter what brand or design.

Official statement from metolius: "We still make the #8 Power Cam (Four cam) but we discontinued the #9 and 10 when we came out with the Supercams. metoliusclimbing.com/superc…"

Two things are at work to make a cam wobbly. First, and most important, is spring strength. This is always a compromise point in cam design because a cam with very stiff springs won't walk, but people will complain about how hard it is to operate. Second, friction works in opposition to all sorts of movement, but if you put all of the contact points very close together, it works less like a snowshoe, and more like a pointe shoe. That is, the narrower the head, the more it will rotate. Friends, therefore, have a pretty clear advantage over Camalots at the top of the range.