climbing ban at ramapo powerlines

My condolences to whoever was lobbying for shit with the town....access was about as wide-open and perfect as it could get.....remind me again why the area,was even brought to the towns attention? What were you guys trying to do? The trails are fine, huge parking area....

Anyone respecting the ban needs a reality check: its a bombed out choss-hole that nobody cares about, besides the jerseyites that wrote the guide. People shoot guns and bows back there regularly, mtn kids huff paint in some of shadier corridors, atv use can also be pretty reckless back there, ive seen locals do some dangerous shit.

Its pretty illegal for the locals to use the swimming hole too...one of you white knights
should go tell them to get outta the water, as its on the same street and very close to the crag....access could be jeopardized even further!!!!! OH NOES!!!!!!!!!1!!!

fucking jerseyites and fucking choss holes. beer bouldering for life man!

Nice trolling boulderbum. I suppose after you finish railing on 'the bombed out choss pile', what else is there to do but go out on chalk patrol, gnashing your teeth like a modern day Grendel. What if I were to say that discussions with the PIPC where making progress?

I'd still say that your the problem and you should take up power walking

So - I'm looking for suggestions. If you were to look into your crystal ball and say - 'It would be cool if they ran the Powerlinez like __________.' What would you see? Peterskill, Ragged Mountain? Obviously, no one wants to pay, no one wants regulation --- but how do you make that work?

sounds like progress!

i don't know enough about how an area should be run and all the issues that must be considered to give a valid opinion.

what i would personally like to see is that it remains a free area, there should be a volunteer group improving access trails and cleaning loose rock on routes, and there should be just enough posted signage to let people know that they are on a well known public piece of parkish land so they don't feel safe littering, throwing up graffiti, etc.

Yeah idk I really like downhill skipping.

that and videos like this
youtube.com/watch?feature=p…!

roger benton summed up exactly how i feel. i've done my fair share of climbing but i know absolutely nothing about land management or how a climbing area should be run. ESPECIALLY not one so close to new york city that will doubtlessly see a lot of traffic. as long as there are people speaking not only on behalf of the climbing community, but also to act as advocates for the proper use of the land and see that it doesn't trashed, clear cut, chalked up, beer bouldered, or anything else messed up that has happened to the place in the past, then i support it. I'll do whatever i can to get this place opened up again because it still is my favorite local crag and driving past the place and knowing that it's shut down really upsets me and gets under my skin.

that said, jon, how are negotiations going with PIP? anything we/i can do to lend a hand? letters to write, things like that?

T.L. And to think you started this thread. I don't think I'd be stepping out of line to say that there has been progress in negotiating with PIPC. A friend of mine suggested that owning land with so many cliffs is risky for land managers, and a good way for them to mitigate that risk is to let climbers get involved. That's the writing I see on the wall.

Ragged Mountain over in Connecticut: raggedmtn.org, is an example where climbers set up a non-profit, purchase the land, and even have their own liability insurance. As far as I know, you don't sign in, you just climb.

That's pretty much a utopia that's taken a lot of people working together. I agree with Roger Benton, we need the chance to mark our trails, and post signs explaining our deal. As talks with the PIPC get more specific (and it is moving that way), we've all got to think ahead enough to move the mob of us with respect and intelligence.

But the PIPC is going to have to lift it's prohibition and give us some rein ... And as it looks to be headed in that direction, but it's probably too early to say exactly what rules we can make for ourselves. I realize it's burning everybody to not go there on these gorgeous spring days, but I don't think it's going to be too long and if we want the coach to put us in, we've got to play on the team.

Why do you feel the need to make it open though if nobody minds people there while its closed?

E-man. You are a genius! Since, we've said we wouldn't climb at the Powerlinez, they're not so worried about enforcing regs and not patrolling. So you can climb unhassled. But, what happens when we all want to climb at the Powerlinez. They start to patrol, and uh oh! One man's genius is group of mens' ...

Group genius, and I do think climbers are a pretty smart bunch, means everyone agrees on some guidelines and works together. And - maybe it's like climbing - the more genius those guidelines - the more free and exhilarating. (I know I sound like a tool.)

So - let's hypothetically say we are going to meet with the PIPC. Some of you have already started approaching me, saying you'd like your name to count. Thanks. Basically, we need guidelines and people who will stand by them. Send me your names and voice your thoughts.

We do have issues. A) Parking - as TL said, there will be a lot of people. B) Chalk. (Right Boulderbum? - Btw, what happened to all your posts??) C) Trails continue to multiply. D) Almost every overhanging boulder problem has been 1) An Indian shelter 2) A looted Indian shelter. E) The area is some of the best habitat for timber rattlers in NY. They live in the talus fields.

That's probably enough for now. If you've got some experience with any of these issues (anybody know Randy Steckerd rattlesnake expert?), NY/NJ Trail Conf. people etc, or your willing to help be part of the group solution, speak up! It's much appreciated. Jon

jon, i'm working with the nj/ny trail conference as an intern right now and a lot fo the people i work with have been talking about the area, and the closure pretty regularly. if there's anything you'd like to know from their standpoint let me know. i'd be glad to bring the issues to my boss, and if necessary to his superior.

Chalk isnt an issue....the high school crowd needs to learn some respect though, at least break the brush outbefore you leave. But i think I know who it was...the little fruit bat wants people to come climb his contrived v6 choss epics. I kinda understand I guess. sucks, sit down starts at this place are like playing russian roulette with a needle full of lymes.
Actually cannot name another crag in NY half as bad with snakes...have had multiple encounters with them back there, and 1 very close call.
isnt torne part of harriman? Looks like it on the maps even though harriman is BULLET next to the rotten flexiness of the powerlines. .

Climbing will never be legal there, unless you purchase the land yourself. This is the northeast man. Come on.

And since nobody else is gonna say it....youd have to be desparate to get on a wall there. The rock falls regularly, FFS the whole cliffline is crumbling.

you trad weakmos should be in the goddamn gym anyway, getting swoll.

What does that entire post even mean? Honestly? Aside from the facts that we already know. Theres snakes and not so great rock... OK. Cool.

And since I'm a trad climber I should climb in a Gym? That right? Getting....Swoll? Is it? Weakmos? Hmmm.

Ahhh yes....Swoll is out of the "Urban Dictionary"! Why didn't I think of that?

Urban Dictionary: swoll
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=swoll
Ebonics for "Swollen", as in getting "swollen" or "buff" at the gym.

The high school crowd needs to learn some respect, is right.

Jon , the reason I never ended up getting involved or getting back to you can pretty much be summed up in the last few posts. Fighting the park system for a close convenient area to climb is one thing but fighting ignorance and arrogance is another.

This time I'll keep my comments and opinions to myself about these members of the climbing community . Their words and actions speak for themselves.

I have been investing my time to a better area, in my opinion, in north Jersey. An overgrown, wasp infested, loose rock fat trad guy's dream. Similar to the Gunks but purple. Best part is not a boulder in site. Ha ha!

Good luck on your fight (from both sides)
Tony

Al - I'm definitely with you, and you can see that I have to take a break from these boards once in a while. I have a 15 year old son, and sometimes guys just have to be idiots. We're all in for a break from the corporate world and this is the true frontier. And - I know where your frontier is now - I live about 15 minutes away. Do you by any chance, know a guy named Andrew who is thick as thieves with Morris County on access issues for that area? If you ever need a name to drop, he'd be your man. Climb on, and I bet you'll be thinking about bolts over there!

TL - I have a feeling tentative trail plans are going to start getting submitted. Any chance you've already thought of that? Thanks.

Boulderbum - Any chance you'd put your money where your mouth is? Since you're already betting that the place will never be legally open. (That's why you have to sneak in, and hurt our chances.) If we get the place legally opened, then you lose the bet and don't come out? Afterall, it is such a choss pile anyway, right!