Lost control of belay of the second on Rewritten, 3-31-12
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Some people who topped out on Long John Wall and some friends of mine both witnessed this on Saturday. From one account, the fall happened on Rewritten just before the area where the old refrigerator-size block once sat. This witness said the second fell 30 feet and that pulled the belayer off his stance. My friend was closer and said the fall was more like 70 feet and that he kept screaming "falling! falling! falling!" The belayer reported having badly rope burned hands. |
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My guess: autoblock did nodda lock. |
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I don't think they were belaying off the anchor in auto block mode, otherwise the description of the belayer getting pulled off their stance wouldn't matter. It sounds likely they were belaying off their harness, got pulled off balance and were not able to maintain control. Very few reasons to belay off the harness when you're above. Either way, hopefully they're ok. |
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My girlfriend and I were on the red ledge above P2 waiting for them the clear P4 when this happened. It was a group of four people with one person leading; so everyone seemed to think (another pair of climbers were on red ledge with us, all waiting to finish the route behind them). We all heard a very scary scream from the second, whom my girlfriend watched fall over the roof below the refrigerator block ledge, and left of the climbing line. It sounded as if he sprained or broke his ankle before coming to a stop (30-40ft fall), and the belayer sustained rope burns on his hands. The two climbers on red ledge with us (Jake and John) climbed P3 to help the injured climber and other members of the team off the route; very very cool of them. Upon rapping off the route, some other climbers who had been on Yellow Spur (or something else over there) mentioned that they thought (or had even seen) the leader belaying off his harness, rather than off the anchor with the auto block in use. This is mostly secondhand info from various vantage points of different climbers, but it's the best I can gather from being there. It seems they were able to get off the route ok in the end. Certainly a lesson to be learned, particularly about the pitfalls of belaying off your harness from above in certain situations. Busy day on Redgarden; scary stuff... |
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I see two comments above that imply that belaying a second directly off the harness is less desirable / more risky than using an auto-block. I would be interested in hearing why you think that is the case. |
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jmeizis wrote:Very few reasons to belay off the harness when you're above.Really?? I can think of plenty of reasons to belay off the harness, you must not have climbed for to long.... No reason it is any less safe than the autoblock if done correctly. |
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DexterRutecki wrote: No reason it is any less safe than the autoblock if done correctly.That is pretty much the rub, no matter how you choose to belay. |
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@NC Rock Climber... I'm not saying one way is necessarily better, but it depends on the situation. If a really good anchor isn't possible, I'd probably belay off my harness; however, if you have good anchoring opportunities, using the auto block feature off the the anchor just adds an extra bit of safety for belaying up a second (when used properly). |
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If you can't trust an anchor to hold a seconding climber, why even consider it an anchor? |
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Buff Johnson wrote:If you can't trust an anchor to hold a seconding climber, why even consider it an anchor?+1 Best wishes to the injured climbers |
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@ Chris Snobeck... Thanks for the clarification. I totally agree that it depends on the situation. I use the autoblock a lot. It is absolutely more convenient, and if used correctly it is totally safe. I have just never seen it as the preferred method or any safer than the other options. |
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Wow, don't get all butt-hurt about this, but it sounds like it would be much harder to lose control of a belay if it would have been in guide-mode. |
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It is hard to know what happened. Don't forget a released autoblock can easily send the second for a big ride (we had a groundfall in the Gunks from that scenario). Autoblocks on the anchor are no cure for belayer screw-ups. |
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This is an example of what happens when people go and do multipitch without educating themselves about all the nuances. In my experience 90 % of climbers I've met at the gym or even at the crags did not know that belaying a second from the top is "any different " one climber (experienced ) belayed from the top off his harness while he wedged his body between two blocks and used it as an anchor ( hair city p2). Lessons learned. I always make it a point to ask my climbing partners if they know what the difference is belaying off ground vs off top even if we are not going to so multipitch...I do that because of my past experience . If you don't belay off tipt make sure you run over the technique before heading up it does help. |
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Mitch Zimmerman wrote:This is an example of what happens when people go and do multipitch without educating themselves about all the nuances. In my experience 90 % of climbers I've met at the gym or even at the crags did not know that belaying a second from the top is "any different " one climber (experienced ) belayed from the top off his harness while he wedged his body between two blocks and used it as an anchor ( hair city p2). Lessons learned. I always make it a point to ask my climbing partners if they know what the difference is belaying off ground vs off top even if we are not going to so multipitch...I do that because of my past experience . If you don't belay off tipt make sure you run over the technique before heading up it does help.Wasn't your first post a month or two ago talking about how you were getting into climbing and where you should go in Moab for a guide??? Now it sounds like you have been climbing for years.... Not a very good troll you are blowing your cover! |
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JLP wrote: This + belaying off harness + no redirect, perhaps? I could definitely see an accident there. You really need a tiny belay device to control twin/double ropes. It's easy to build up slack in one rope, as well as not have a good grip on either as you try to control both. Ahhh - it's spring again in Eldo! I hope nobody dies this year.Yep, I think it's a good idea to just stay clear of the rewritten area if you aren't there first... |
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The title of the post pretty much sums it up regardless of belay technique. The only way I can see a second generating that kind of momentum is if the belayer didn't have control of the break strand/strands. |
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Wow Dexter, you seem a bit snarky for someone who registered a week ago. |
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jmeizis wrote:+1 I'll add that it's easier to manage two followers if using plaquette type device in auto-block mode (unless one of them need slack on a weighted rope, then it gets a little more interesting, but manageable). |
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Thread drift is setting in. I'm going with the flow here. |
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jmeizis wrote:If you have some really good reasons to belay off your harness then please enlighten me.I would but RGold just did a nice job and he knows a lot more than me or you. The autoblock is not the almighty only way to belay someone from above. Jmezisis try to have some flexibility in your climbing styles/techniques, as you become a better and more competent climber you will appreciate it. |