Best trad/alpine/extendable draw

Yates sells a 1" tubular 24" rabbit runner, but that could be pretty bulky.

Both Yates and BlueWater say they'll do custom lengths, so you could call and ask.

Mad Rock makes some cheap, light, wire-gate biners.

Mad Rock Wiregate

I've been using mine for several years, including throwing them in the dirt, getting them soaked when caught in the rain, and frozen while ice climbing, and they are still working great. For $6 a pop you can probably afford to replace all your ovals with these, which will make your rack much lighter. If you're flush with money you can spend a 30-40% more on another brand and save a few extra grams . . .

For slings, go skinny, it's way less clutter and weight. Don't worry about all those FF2 tests that show them snapping, since you're tying into the anchor with your rope, not a sling, right? Plus, floss is good for you, just ask the dentist. :)

caughtinside wrote: Tests have shown that 3 year old skinny slings break at half of their original strength.

That's interesting. Do you happen to have a link to those tests?

+1 to the BD Hoodwires, and looks like BD is coming out with an Oz hoodwire version: catalog.blackdiamondequipme…

Available in May

my 2 cents:

Slings - superlight, mammut. more beefy but still kinda skinny, bluewater. BD are in between and I like them a lot too.

Biners - beware the camp nanos, the ones I had were poorly finished where the wire is peened on one side of the biner, sharp edge that could damage a sling. When you buy wiregates check for that. In a similar size the metolius mini's are better finished, more beefy, wider rope radius. Personally I like a biner thats closer to full size on a trad draw and prefer mini biners for racking cams.

I check wiregates for the potential of nose hooking the gate on bolt hangers. I really like superfly biners but they nose hook like crazy, as do some others. I couldn't get the mad rock wiregates to nose hook; plus they're light, well finished, and inexpensive. I think they're the best buy.

Ian70 wrote: That's interesting. Do you happen to have a link to those tests? May

If you want more solid tests, search for amsteel/dyneema/spectra in the sailing arena. They've done far more science on it than climbers have. UV damage degrades it relatively quickly. This is with tug lines, but still relevant as it deals with the fibers. down to 60% strength after replacement designed life (2 years). Not much of it has to do with shock loading or mechanical wear.

samsonrope.com/site_files/R…

It says right there in the sling card when purchased that you should be replacing it at least every three years. Any discoloration is a big no-no.

In addition, that's with the improved SK75 blue fiber that hasn't made it to the climbing market. Think 2-4% more on your SK60 fibers used in climbing.

interesting .... on one hand you have people on the intrawebs indicating that dyneema is worse than nylon for durability ...

on the other hand you have DMM claiming that its likely better for certain applications ... and they are the ones who did the dyneema "death tests"

This isn’t to say Dyneema® is bad and nylon is good. On the contrary, comparing the two materials, Dyneema® has a strength to weight ratio higher than not just nylon but also steel, a significantly higher resistance to cutting and lower water absorbtion (important in winter), making it an ideal material for slings and quickdraws. It is also more resistant to ultra-violet rays and chemical attack than nylon but has a lower melting point.

^ Thats why I like the blend that BlueWater Titan and Trango Ultratape use - also they have a higher than 22kn rating, so that as they loose strength over the years, at least its starting at a higher number than the skinny pure dyneema stuff. Seems like a good middle ground for material, size/weight, durability and all that crap.

+2 on the camp express draws.

they are super light, and i found them on the dirtbag deals board for $10 each.

mine didn't have any of the quality issues i've heard about the nano's like inconsistant gate spring strength or rough edges.

+ whatever on having some nylon draws on the rack as well though...

Mammut Moses biners...almost full size and 27 grams and bigger than the nanos. Pair that with your favorite 8mm dyneema sling and its going to be super light.

They are narrow so they will take up less room on your harness or sling but still flared enough for the rope.

backcountry.com/mammut-mose…

caughtinside wrote: Tests have shown that 3 year old skinny slings break at half of their original strength.

Which is still 11 kn. I'm pretty happy with that. To each his own.

That DMM video has made me decide to have dedicated rope and pro/bolt carabiners. I am putting together some draws and like WC nitros for the rope end. I like the feel and open gate strength of the superlfys but find that orange garish. Any old silvers still around? Or other contenders? Or should I splurge on Heliums?

rei.com/product/830906/camp…

Ian70 wrote: That's interesting. Do you happen to have a link to those tests?

I had the tests done on my rack of Mammut 8mm dyneema draws sending some of the slings to be tested at the end of each year over four years of use. They saw moderate use over that timeframe given I don't do a lot in winter up this way. By the end of the third year they were down to 9-11kn. At the end of the fourth year they were down to 7-10kn.

On reaching them with the results, Mammut responded that they were designed as an ultralite alpine consumable to be used as such and not for year-in-year-out trad climbing. I wouldn't use them longer than two years myself. I've switched over to Metolius or Yates 11mmm slings and replace them every third year (but still miss the little Mammut sleeve over the joint).

does anyone make nylon runners skinnier than 9/16?

caughtinside wrote: Because it is cheap, is not fully static, and the strength doesn't degrade quickly like those skinny slings do. Tests have shown that 3 year old skinny slings break at half of their original strength. I don't want to buy a bunch of $10 slings every three years. If you need to leave gear behind at anchors or to bail, nylon is great. The skinnies still have their uses though. I still take two along as they can be nice for thin tie offs.

They break at 1/2 the strength which is 10-12 KN ,
I may be wrong but You won't see any fall that generated that much force...

I still have my 5 years old 10mm Wild Country Dynema runners ... but I am about to change them.

Trango ultra tape starts at 25 kN anyways.

Mammut 8mm Dyneema Slings on SALE From $5.47 - $17.97

mountaingear.com/webstore/G…

Larry S wrote:I'm a fan of the Blue Water Titan runners, I think they have a nice middle ground between the "Dental Floss" and the nylon.

^^This.

Add two Wild Country Heliums and call it good.

Expensive, yeah...but light and strong, with a full-size biner with a keylock nose. What's not to love?

coldatom wrote: Has anyone used these Metolius long draws tripled, or are they too stiff?

Yes - I have two of these slings and LOVE them. I have two alpine draws made of open loop skinny slings and don't like them as much. The metolius runners are really clean to use