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Top Roping Ice Dangers

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Dylan Weldin · · Ramstein, DE · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 1,715

I thought these images were worthy of sharing... Last year in Ouray Chad Peele taught me how to ice climb during one of the festival clinics. Someone raised the question as to whether or not they needed to be concerned about swinging a tool into the rope and severing it.

I seem to recall Chad saying that in all his experience he'd never seen a tool impact a rope in a way that caused major damage. He afforded that 99% of the time the tool would glance either right or left of the impact zone by sliding off of the densely woven sheath.

Earlier this month I took five complete beginners to the ice park and taught them how to climb. At the end of our first day I inspected the ropes and found this:

Core shot

angle #2

Luckily the damage was on the climber strand of the rope and I've cut my 60m to a 58m! :) Also, "left lane sports" just blew out sterling ropes at near wholesale so I picked up a new 70m. They've still got some cords left and are also selling 5.10 climbing shoes: Left Lane Sports: Huge Savings Link

Has anyone had any similar issues with rope damage in their own experience?

The likely culprit:

Rob P · · Duluth, MN · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 458

I've seen this happen as well. It happens so infrequently that I wouldn't be too concerned, but an easy and cheap solution is to cut a piece of an old garden hose and put the rope through it so it's sitting right above the tie-in knot.

Steve M · · MN · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 100

When you cut that end of your rope off have a look at the core, you'll be amazed at how undamaged most of it is right there. You don't want to keep climbing with it that way but your topropers aren't gonna die either. But yeah, tell the beginners to choose a better spot to go for a solid stick.

Jason S. · · Durango, Co · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 150

Gotta watch the newbys with crampons, I have seen way more damage from people not watching where they are steping than from sticking the rope with a tool.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

Never over 30 plus years of ice have I hit my fat ropes on toprope. Then this winter,twice in 10 minutes I hit a skinny 9.2, almost cut in half. Go figure the odds on that. Should have gone for a MegaMillions lottery game ticket right after it happened.

Alpinisto · · Connecticut · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 30
Jason S. wrote:Gotta watch the newbys with crampons, I have seen way more damage from people not watching where they are steping than from sticking the rope with a tool.
It's not just the noobs...my regular partner -- who's been climbing for 30+ years -- put a pick clean through my rope when we were TRing up in the Adirondacks a couple weeks ago.

He called it "circumcising" my rope...(hardee-har) and he had to get to a stance and physically pull the rope off the pick. Looks like my 60m will become a 58m, also. 8/
Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
Woodchuck ATC wrote:Never over 30 plus years of ice have I hit my fat ropes on toprope. Then this winter,twice in 10 minutes I hit a skinny 9.2, almost cut in half. Go figure the odds on that. Should have gone for a MegaMillions lottery game ticket right after it happened.
Sh:t comes in clusters. Not that long ago, in the space of 5 minutes, I stabbed my rope with the ice tool, blew the tool out of a marginal hold and smacked myself in the forehead with the hammer (never did that before in 10 years), and dropped a melon size chunk of cold brittle ice on my face (kinda weird that one... I lost vision in one eye for several seconds. Might've been a piece of ice stuck behind my glasses).

I figure I'm good to go, accident free now for at least a few years!
tyler lawrence · · durango, co · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 0

Cut 3-4 feet of 1 inch tubular webbing and make a sheath above your tie in knot. Works great.

Kevin Connolly · · CO · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 0

shit, i thought we were finally at the point where ice climbing was safe and everyone could do it. i was thinking i would take a lesson from a professional mountain guide and be good to go, but maybe i will just find a new sport. i bet its hard to climb a whole frozen waterfall without falling off a lot of times.

Dylan Weldin · · Ramstein, DE · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 1,715
Kevin Connolly wrote:shit, i thought we were finally at the point where ice climbing was safe and everyone could do it. i was thinking i would take a lesson from a professional mountain guide and be good to go, but maybe i will just find a new sport. i bet its hard to climb a whole frozen waterfall without falling off a lot of times.
Dear Kevin,

I'm quite happy I chose to learn from a professional rather than a snarky individual such as yourself. That being said, I see you're in Durango and I'd love to get out some time. I lead WI4 and would love to get up First+Second gullies as well as Stairway to Heaven as soon as our snowpack settles. I own 9 screws.

Thanks for your valued input,
-Dylan
D Condit · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 95

It's not just a toprope issue. I've twice had a follower chop my rope. Once nearly completely severed a 9.8. Luckily this was his very first swing and not half way up. Both were novices who were pre-warned about rope care in vicinity of sharp pointy things.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280
Gunkiemike wrote: Sh:t comes in clusters. Not that long ago, in the space of 5 minutes, I stabbed my rope with the ice tool, blew the tool out of a marginal hold and smacked myself in the forehead with the hammer (never did that before in 10 years), and dropped a melon size chunk of cold brittle ice on my face (kinda weird that one... I lost vision in one eye for several seconds. Might've been a piece of ice stuck behind my glasses). I figure I'm good to go, accident free now for at least a few years!
+1 for the outstanding screwup day award.
Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280
tyler lawrence wrote:Cut 3-4 feet of 1 inch tubular webbing and make a sheath above your tie in knot. Works great.
Been using about 4 ft. of old garden hose to protect the rope. My 'hit' last week went through the hose and still cut the rope half way through.
S Denny · · Aspen, CO · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 20

thing is, sometimes the belayer pulls up rope right into the swing. while toproping single pitch, the belayer should be paying attention to this and only pulling up rope when both tools are set. i can't beleive no one has mentioned this... it's the reason you can be climbing for 1 day or 30 years and still slam a rope... and 9 times outta ten it's the belayers fault

Kevin Connolly · · CO · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 0

ok dylan, we can do those on sunday. you can call me at 417 9438. i'll be up there tomorrow so if it looks shitty or if the skiing is really good it will have to wait for another time. that will most likely be the case but i don't ice climb much these days so i would be psyched to get out. after living in ouray county for a little while i don't really care for top roping ice, "mountain guides", or spraying about conditions on the internet. maybe i hung out with too many crusty people in that dark hole of a town, but its a cool place. no one except people who don't live there all year and/ or make money solely from tourism wants it to turn in to a full on disneyland shitshow like that lovely little town over the hill.

Kevin Connolly · · CO · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 0
S Denny wrote:thing is, sometimes the belayer pulls up rope right into the swing. while toproping single pitch, the belayer should be paying attention to this and only pulling up rope when both tools are set. i can't beleive no one has mentioned this... it's the reason you can be climbing for 1 day or 30 years and still slam a rope... and 9 times outta ten it's the belayers fault
really?
doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264

The moral of the story - top roping ice is dangerous!

Leo Paik · · Westminster, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 22,800

In my limited career of ice climbing, I've only had a rope hit once. Naturally, it was me, harpooning my rope with my crampon on lead. It was probably 10 years into my ice career ~10 years ago. I cut the rope making my 50m a 48m. Core shot, no core damage. Still, I felt much happier having inspected the core. Back in the day when I used an old Salewa half tube pick, I worried a bit more about nailing it while following with just the wrong timed tightening of the rope from above. FWIW, I used to move my waist to the side to hook the rope over the hammer or adze of the non-swinging tool placement to keep the rope to the side to reduce the likelihood of nailing my rope when following.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

My old original flavor Footfangs' had that sharp 'V' shaped rope-cutter right center between the frontpoints. Often found the rope between there on leads, but thankfully never after a swift kick foot placement, and never sliced it as I often feared I would. How many belayers have stepped their crampons on the rope and never realized they did so?

Mike Lane · · AnCapistan · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 880

I've never seen ice top rope.

Bill Rusk · · Rochester, MN · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 770

I was leading an intro ice climbing clinic at Gooseberry Falls State Park in MN and one of my clients buried my brand new laser pick right through one of our top ropes. Thankfully they were only 10 ft off the ground. After the incident I retired the rope (only a 20m) and cut the damaged section out. I pulled out the core and examined it. To my amazement the core looked ok, a few cut fibers, but all the strands were intact. The major damage was to the sheath. TRing ice is not safe by any means. It is way more dangerous than TR on rock. Falling ice and severed ropes are just a couple of the mechanisms for injury. I have found the retired webbing over the rope to be effective for edge padding fixed lines, and I would totally use it as a defense against new ice climber's poorly aimed swings.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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