Moonlight Buttress in March

Astroman is harder than Moonlight.
The NW Face of Half Dome is way harder than Moonlight.
Both were once aid climbs, but no more.
Just sayin'.
Personally, I'd rather free climb, say, Iron Messiah than aid Moonlight. Far more rewarding in every sense.
Aid climbing is neither.
I've aid climbed before, but never intentionally.
Aid seems kinda like heli-skiing, but maybe not as rad?
I'm glad the Compressor got chopped.
Just wanted to slip that in there.
Aid climbing, the "belly crawling" of the climbing world.
Aid climbers who share their hot cocoa definitely get a pass though.

chuck claude wrote: You need to get out onto more 5.11 trad routes. I know tons of 5.11's that are anything but fingers. There is a climb at Paradise Forks (Az) called Three Turkeys (5.11) which has very little in terms of fingers but it does have a good baby butt flare. Coyne Crack (5.12a) isn't really fingers (unless you have really big paws). Hell, a whole lot of 5.11, 5.12's and a few 5.13's are in the ringlock range....

Thanks for sharing with all of us your extensive "no"ledge of 5.11 and up climbs that are wider than fingers. That was really helpful. I'm failing to see the part of my post that states that ALL 5.11 and up climbs are thin but people read all kinds of shit into my posts that I didn't write and it would appear that you are "know" exception.

BTW...the OP clarified that they do indeed have smaller gear but that they just "hadn't done their homework yet" and were listing the gear they thought they would need for the climb. Turns out they learned something on this thread!

And to all you elitist, self absorbed, egomaniacs that think "aid climbing is neither" and that aid has no place outside of emergency situations anymore... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Who do you think made it possible for "free climbers" to even begin to contemplate this route? I'm sure all of those pin scars existed before the FA.

This settles it. I'm going to Zion in March and I'm gonna siege MB with nothing but a rack of bongs some hooks and a bolt gun. Probably bring enough food and water for at least a week. Swinging a hammer all day is hard work.

See you guys up there!

Bring extra hot cocoa sucka!

I would like to see more hard free FAs that have not been aided first nor are existing aidlines...

(ground-up of course.)

Darren Mabe wrote:I would like to see more hard free FAs that have not been aided first nor are existing aidlines... (ground-up of course.)

Mike and Piz have done a few in Zion.

Honestly, with so many sick free routes in Zion, I don't understand the obsession with Moonlight Buttress. Its a good route for sure, but if you like solitude, as many claim to, there are plenty of lines that are just as good, rotting away.

Yarp wrote: Thanks for sharing with all of us your extensive "no"ledge of 5.11 and up climbs that are wider than fingers. That was really helpful. I'm failing to see the part of my post that states that ALL 5.11 and up climbs are thin but people read all kinds of shit into my posts that I didn't write and it would appear that you are "know" exception. BTW...the OP clarified that they do indeed have smaller gear but that they just "hadn't done their homework yet" and were listing the gear they thought they would need for the climb. Turns out they learned something on this thread! And to all you elitist, self absorbed, egomaniacs that think "aid climbing is neither" and that aid has no place outside of emergency situations anymore... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Who do you think made it possible for "free climbers" to even begin to contemplate this route? I'm sure all of those pin scars existed before the FA. This settles it. I'm going to Zion in March and I'm gonna siege MB with nothing but a rack of bongs some hooks and a bolt gun. Probably bring enough food and water for at least a week. Swinging a hammer all day is hard work. See you guys up there!

The way I resad your post was that you were trying to call some BS cause you couldn't see how someone could claim leading 5.11a trad while having a pretty sparse rack, since the way I read it, you were saying 5.11a implies thin steep crack. I was just saying BS to that.

And yes, I am an elitist prick, and do know something about 5.11's. Being I don't remember the last time I did a trad route easier then 5.10d, and its been some time since I did one of those. (its easy not remembering at my age though)...

Monomaniac wrote: Mike and Piz have done a few in Zion. Honestly, with so many sick free routes in Zion, I don't understand the obsession with Moonlight Buttress. Its a good route for sure, but if you like solitude, as many claim to, there are plenty of lines that are just as good, rotting away.

those guys definitely came to mind with my tongue-in-cheek comment... but why don't those routes get repeated regularly?

JLP wrote: If you are looking for world class quality as well, I think you're about 50 years late.

bummer. how are all the cherries picked? besides, i didn't know they were putting up 5.12+/13+ routes in the sixties without any aid or haven't already been aided..

As someone who is trying to free the route, I understand why people are saying it is no longer an aid route. I've been stuck under a party with a ledge set up in the middle of the route. It was frustrating, to say the least. We started the route early, and blitzed up under them in a couple of hours. Unfortunately, they wasted hours of daylight with their feet dangling over the side of their ledge until we were at the belay underneath them, and then started climbing not giving us the option to pass. All they had to do was wait another 30 minutes and let us go by. They took about 2-3 hours to get halfway up the next pitch, and we bailed. Their third day on route, the team bailed and we were able to complete the route (with a few falls) that day with them out of they way.

The reality is that both free and aid parties drool over this climb. However, I think it's possible for multiple teams to enjoy the route. If you're slow and learning, please be respectful and let other much much much faster teams pass. Also, consider the "fix and fire" method since you'll move faster, have less stuff to haul, and hopefully you and others on the wall might enjoy it better!

FYI, I've tried the route twice, ground up, no tick marks. Not rapping in and ticking it like someone accused free climbers of doing above... Just sayin!

Josh

johnL wrote:reality

i think there should be permadraws on the whole thing

caughtinside wrote:Slightly different note here... Have you guys seen the movie Big Stone? It has some amazing footage of Jason Campbell onsighting MB like 8-10 years ago. Haven't seen it in a long time but it still stands out as some of the best trad footage I've ever seen. The movie also has Lynn Hill Free NIAD and Tommy Caldwell on the Salathe.

Hells yeah! That footage is really good, I think it's more like 15+ years ago. I've tried to find a copy of this on DVD for years and never had luck. My college outdoor rec program had a copy on VHS way back when.

I still remember one part where he's wicked pumped and starts sprinting for what he thinks is a jug, gets there and OH SHIT!!!! Not. A. Jug. You see his eyes get about twice as big. Great stuff.

This does look pretty cool.

Big Stone on DVD

So what time of the year does MB start seeing lots of traffic?

April is when is starts to see people on it almost everyday, until mid-end of May.

Rob