Half Dome, Cracks vs. Face?

Naah. I'm able to campus everything anyway.

it's great that there's a site climbers can use to share information about climbs and also ask others for information as they're attempting to improve their skills and knowledge.

because, without the site, where would people go to complain about others who are using the site exactly as intended.

Austin Baird wrote: I work two jobs, am planning a wedding, and I'm trying to train. Forgive me for not having the time to live in Camp 4, "pay my dues", and follow whatever "Route to Half Dome" that you feel is appropriate....I'm going to find out as much information as I can to improve my chances of success.

Hey dood, the advice he not so subtly gave you...do the progression of awesome climbs that will prep you for the route (and are worth climbing in their own right) is the single best way to "improve my (your) chances of success".

And it's never a good sign when you start front-loading the excuses...I work two jobs...so what?, Plenty of us work 60 hrs a week and train, raise kids, etc. Chopper Reid thinks you need to harden TF up.

I think that some of the issues raised by a few others are worth considering. Your desire to climb half dome is applaudable and I don't doubt that you will put your full effort into training between your rigourus work schedule and marriage planning. With that being said, it appears that you are rather inexperienced outside of sport climbing and I would assume as far as multipitch climbing you haven't done much more than a few hundred feet off the deck in rock canyon.I don't want to sound like a jerk here but maybe potentially hurting the trip of other more experienced climbers on half dome because of inexperience isn't really fair. Especially with the abundance of multipitch climbing close by from which you could gain experience. Zion, the tetons, castle valley, and the wind rivers are much closer and will offer that experience. Nothing wrong with getting in over your head but maybe try it out on some shorter less crowded climbs prior to heading to the valley. Why venture over there when you haven't tapped into the resources close by. I would hardly call half dome something you need to go through a rite of passage before getting to but at least pay some dues and get some experience. It will save some time and money too.

johnL and Dallin - definitely things to consider. I appreciate the input. John - I think you're right that my chances of success\fun are better if I pick some different climbs to cut my teeth on. We're weighing our desire for fun\success against our desire for a challenge. That'll be the determining factor for us.

David Appelhans wrote: And in the process muck up the route for other climbers who are actually prepared to send the route. If you are just overambitious but don't have the experience or skills to succeed, it is kinda like driving in the left lane at 5 under the speed limit. Sure you have every "right" to be there, but it doesn't mean that you should be there or that you aren't hampering the people behind you.

David - as the second on this trip i felt the need to give my opinion on the matter. Whether we are truly over ambitious, or are just undertaking something that may well be in our skill set but is unknown because we have never done it before, remains to be seen. If you consider speed to be the factor that defines a 'right to be on the mountain' then i suggest you keep off the walls until you can climb as fast as these guys.

In the end, who really should be there? I'd say its those who have the drive and the balls to go do it, even if it's just for the hell of it. Either way, if there wasn't the expectation of finishing in a day, that wouldn't have been the original premise of the post. And I wouldn't necessarily call Half Dome in a day 'slow.'

Take johnL's advice, Austin. I think you'll have a better time for your trip.

johnL and Dallin - definitely things to consider. I appreciate the input. John - I think you're right that my chances of success\fun are better if I pick some different climbs to cut my teeth on. We're weighing our desire for fun\success against our desire for a challenge. That'll be the determining factor for us.

GO FOR IT! Don't waste your time on something you're now psyched on. If you end up bailing at least you went for it. Again, assuming you can do so safely.

I understand that you two were a bit offended by Dave's comments but it is mountain project. When you post be ready to take some things with a grain of salt. I also don't think he was saying that you didn't have a right to be there but rather that you and others involved(directly or indirectly) would have a better experience if y'all were more experiences going into it. Looking through your list of accomplishments here on MP it seems that to get the most bang for your buck you should spend time doing longer routes in LCC and surrounding places. Rock canyon isn't going to cut it. I would suggest some major time doing at least 3-10 pitch climbs nearby. And maybe both practicing some aiding and jugging to make your goal more feasible.

Good recs Dallin. I don't really update my MP profile though. I've got substantially more experience than what's reflected there. I've done a lot of the longer routes up LCC and quite a few more in RR. And just to be clear; I wasn't offended by Dave at all. I served a two year Mormon mission and I just graduated law school. Short of calling my mother a whore, it's pretty impossible to insult me. I was just criticizing how unhelpful he was. We made up though, thanks to my rockin' abs and a cute lamb.

Austin Baird wrote:I served a two year Mormon mission

Well, at least you'll be able knock out the bike ride from C4 to mirror no problem.

Will S wrote: Well, at least you'll be able knock out the bike ride from C4 to mirror no problem.

That's pretty funny actually.

I have mixed feeling about your question. First, your whole question about "crack vs. face" is really naive. It's the Valley. It's going to be mostly a crack climb. My grandmother, who used to warn me about snakes on the rocks, would have known that.

Second, I did the RNWF when I was 16 with a couple of other teenagers and it was a great adventure. Having said that, I had a lot of trad climbing under my belt at places like Tahquitz and Joshua Tree. I could lead 10a/b trad pretty solid, and had 3 weeks of prep in the Valley before the climb, so it sounds like my experience base was way more solid than what you're describing.

Since it sounds like you have an open mind about your possible success/failure, you've got nothing to lose by trying if you don't mind killing a couple of days if you flail miserably. Don't worry about mucking up the route for others. It's a trade route. Anyone on that route should expect that possibility.

Still, to increase your chances of a better climb, I'd suggest trying a longer Valley moderate first, maybe two. If you climb well and move fast, then maybe you can pull it off with minimal epicness. Try the NE Buttress of Higher Cathedral Rock, maybe the E. Butt of El Cap, something of that ilk (which, though rated higher is alot easier). If you suck on either one, then I wouldn't waste your time on HD.

Be safe and have fun.

Will S wrote: Well, at least you'll be able knock out the bike ride from C4 to mirror no problem.

That was awesome.

Austin - check out Zion for a weekend to get some aid experience under your belt. You can hone the free skills in Little when you're home. So take a long weekend, and pick a route down there that involves a good amount of free/aid. You'll be glad you did, I promise!

I had to do a double take.

At first I thought this thread read:
Half Dumb, Cracks in Face?
I thought I waas on the wrong website.

Will S wrote: Well, at least you'll be able knock out the bike ride from C4 to mirror no problem.

HAHAHA

Here I am again offering up some words even though my initial input gotya all fired up Austin.

I like what GregG had to say about Zion. It's in your home court, offers ridiculous amounts of free/aid climbing, it's sandstone so the sketch factor and clean aid techniques you can ONLY use there will greatly help you in your quest to "French Free" whatever you need to, and you'll get some air under your feet. Plus its Zion...the sickest big wall area around. Wanna get quick, practice there for a while. So much crack climbing there that it'll harden your hands up for the valley.

If you don't make it to the Valley, go to the Black in Colorado. You'll definitely get your share of lessons there. :)

Hey Austin, never mind those idiots who posted before. Don't get into discussion with them. The fact is you are doing what any good climber should do before heading into a challenge...your research! You think Warren Harding, Royal Robbins, John Salathe, etc never got in a little over their head and had to bail and come back for a another try after making some adjustments?? I did NW face few years ago (2 days) but plan to be back this spring for a 1 dayer. Sorry I can't offer any good beta...it's been a few years since I've been up there but they other guy who suggested linking some pitches and simul-climbing the real easy ones sounds right on if your comfortable with that.

I think the number one thing you should work on is speed. Climbing 5.11 onsite is useful, but in this case simuling 5.9 and 10a would be much more valuable. You don't want to be getting tired on 5.9 cracks. French free is important, as is arriving to the base early (HD is POPULAR).

Often speed and difficulty come hand in hand, thus the suggestions for climbing harder routes like Astroman and the Rostrum. My experience tells me that people climb slow, especially at their limit. So make sure you are not at your limit! You can't really afford to climb slow on Half Dome. It is a HUGE route.

People waste time at belays, can easily get stuck behind other parties, and even suffer with the route finding on HD. It may be a popular route, but the the first half definitely wanders a good bit. Your most time will be spent with the short sections of aiding which is mainly two bolt ladders and the Zig Zags. Can you aid? Aid solo? Short fix?

If you want to do some prep, forget A-man and Rostrum and do some big linkups of easier climbing. Can you go sub 10 hours on the Steck Salathe? Link up the East Butt of El Cap to the East Butt of Middle? How about doing a burn up Sheer Lunacy in Zion, Space Shot, or one of the many other "local" walls.

Unless your climbing 5.12 on gear right now, I think it would be pretty hard to free climb the ZigZags. Perhaps if they were on the ground, but 17 pitches tends to make people a little tired.

The linkup beta given above is pretty good. You can really reduce the climbing a ton. Don't bring too much gear. Doubles to #2 a #3 and an optional 2nd #3 or #4. The biggest thing that helped me was a TON of spare (lightweight) quickdraws. We had over 20. Pitons are everywhere!

The chimneys are awesome to climb but can be a really bummer if you have a big pack. Make sure you plan accordingly.

- Luke

What happened, Austin? Did you get it?

My bet is that you got it.