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Black DIamond gear (protection) made in china??????

Luc-514 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 12,506

Where can I get a bolt gun like Stallone has?

Seriously

Bobby Hanson · · Spokane, WA · Joined Oct 2001 · Points: 1,230

When BD was making Camalots in the States, they were drawing from the same labor pool as CCH.

bearded sam · · Crested Butte, CO · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 145
The Bobby wrote:When BD was making Camalots in the States, they were drawing from the same labor pool as CCH.
this
Kenny Thompson · · Cottage grove oregon · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 560

So, It's been what about 5 years since Camalots started being manufactured in China and besides the obvious ethical points about moving overseas are camalots better, worse have any failed? I would like to have u.s. made camalots but that's not going to happen. One can hardly blame a co. for moving when are own government makes it next to impossible to run a buisiness unless your an ins. or oil co.

Eastvillage · · New York, NY · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 80

(five year old thread, awesome)
Kenny,
That Government you speak of must be the California State Government.

Kenny Thompson · · Cottage grove oregon · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 560

Thank's for answering my question

Bill Moser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 25

Well, the thread has been resurrected, so why not... Here are a couple of pics of old & new #1 camalots, side by side. Not sure if better machining (of the MIC model) = better cams, but you be the judge.

Seventeen yr old Camalot (top), and 2012 model (bottom)

Note the machining ripples in the lobes of the 17 year old model

The 2012 made-in-china mode has no ripples in the lobes

Eric Coffman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 735

I have been living in the philippines for a few months now and it is a real eye-opener. Products are made for export here and the people are paid enough to keep them barely above poverty with the knowledge that they can switch places with someone in poverty at anytime. Those products are then shipped to the U.S. and sold for a handsome profit.
Not quite slavery but not far from it. I dont know what the future holds but if it means that a few people are incredibly wealthy and the rest of us living barely above poverty with the knowlege we are replaceable and can switch places with someone in poverty at anytime. I will fight against that world view using all means necessary. If that means I dont buy BD products and instead by Metolius then thats what I will do. I think we should evaluate all products by how well they treat (and pay employees), the environment (not much environmental regulation in china), and thier customer (price gouging comes to mind). As for Peter the CEO of BD saying that all products are produced by BD employees and the culture exchange of employees between the two locations (SLC and China), my dad told me that when his company moved HQ and Operations to Germany without notice he was given a choice that afternoon to take a severance package and train his successor in Germany or to begin looking for a job without severance (my dad had 4 kids) Dad said it was like choosing to cut your arm off or chew it off you still wont have a hand. FUCK BD and Similar Companies.

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
Eric Coffman wrote:I have been living in the philippines for a few months now and it is a real eye-opener. Products are made for export here and the people are paid enough to keep them barely above poverty with the knowledge that they can switch places with someone in poverty at anytime. Those products are then shipped to the U.S. and sold for a handsome profit. Not quite slavery but not far from it. I dont know what the future holds but if it means that a few people are incredibly wealthy and the rest of us living barely above poverty with the knowlege we are replaceable and can switch places with someone in poverty at anytime. I will fight against that world view using all means necessary. If that means I dont buy BD products and instead by Metolius then thats what I will do. I think we should evaluate all products by how well they treat (and pay employees), the environment (not much environmental regulation in china), and thier customer (price gouging comes to mind). As for Peter the CEO of BD saying that all products are produced by BD employees and the culture exchange of employees between the two locations (SLC and China), my dad told me that when his company moved HQ and Operations to Germany without notice he was given a choice that afternoon to take a severance package and train his successor in Germany or to begin looking for a job without severance (my dad had 4 kids) Dad said it was like choosing to cut your arm off or chew it off you still wont have a hand. FUCK BD and Similar Companies.
BD didn't let employees go when they moved production to China. They were running full production capacity in SLC then and they still are now.
SilverSnurfer · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 5
Some Random Guy wrote:i've heard all the parts are made in slc, shipped to china and assembled, then sent back. does all that really save them that much money?!?!
The 2012 cam lobes shown in the above comparison were made in China. C4 lobes are no longer made in the U.S. As of a few months ago, C3 lobes were still being made in SLC.
Forthright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 110
Some Random Guy wrote:i've heard all the parts are made in slc, shipped to china and assembled, then sent back. does all that really save them that much money?!?!
Yes it does, for almost EVERY product %50 or more of the cost is assembly.
SilverSnurfer · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 5
Ray Pinpillage wrote: BD didn't let employees go when they moved production to China. They were running full production capacity in SLC then and they still are now.
BD layed off dozens of employees as they transferred production to China-some of whom had 10 years or more service with the company and many of whom were my friends and co-workers for many years.

For better or worse-there is a human cost to off shoring.

The current manufacturing side of the SLC facility probably employs less than 25% of the people it did during the years of peak domestic production.

Anyone who gave you contrary information is either uninformed or being deceptive.
Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

Good lord what a bunch of whiners...

Eastvillage · · New York, NY · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 80

3 years since this thread was started and BD has shipped it all to China
F*#k them. They are no better than Walmart.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
akafaultline wrote:I completely agree with eric Coffman. The BD execs are a bunch of whores IMO. The only thing I have seen from them made in the US is their ice screws. I purchased a couple but prefer grivel and petzl for the simple fact they arent off shored.
I'm going to go out on a limb and point out that BD probably has more US employees than Grivel and Petzl combined.

Do you guys realize that probably more than half of what you own is made in China? The people who whine the loudest about out-sourcing (that's the term BTW not out-shoring) are the ones looking for the cheapest deal possible on every piece of crap they buy. If you actually care deeply about American Made I suggest a strong look at your actual buying habits before proclaiming BD a "bunch of whores".
matt davies · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 25
S.P.L.T. Image wrote: If you actually care deeply about American Made I suggest a strong look at your actual buying habits before proclaiming BD a "bunch of whores".
What's wrong with whores? They provide a valuable and desirable service at a reasonable price, and actually accept the risks of their profession servicing their customers. I suggest that BD is acting more like a "bunch of bankers".
Joe_Re · · Topsfield, MA · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 0
matt davies wrote: What's wrong with whores? They provide a valuable and desirable service at a reasonable price, and actually accept the risks of their profession servicing their customers. I suggest that BD is acting more like a "bunch of bankers".
One of the best posts I've read in a while!
SilverSnurfer · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 5

I'm not carrying a grudge against BD for moving processes to China-their primary focus was growth and they did what they felt they had to do to grow.

I still use lots of BD gear and will probably end up buying more some day.

As it is, they ended up building most of their stuff in China, with a small proportion of gear or parts of gear still being made in SLC. I'm not sure that is how they originally planned it, that's just how it worked out.

From a personal view,I don't like to see someone claiming erroneously that BD didn't lay off people though- they did and it was a bad time for the people involved-those that left as well as those that stayed.

Also-as I understand it, offshoring is generally used to mean the relocation of processes,while outsourcing means procuring outside of the company. BD built and staffed a factory in China-I called that offshoring, but the usage may be different elsewhere.

Eric Coffman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 735

SPLT Image I do care deeply about buying American and I do look where my products are made. That's why most of my rack is Metolius. It is also why I shop at the thrift store for clothes. Most products that were made in the U.S. aren't made here anymore so it is difficult to "buy american". I dont agree with the idea that you can sell your product here and falsely create a warm and fuzzy image. For example Apple has a factory in china (for those who dont know that often means the employees work 7 days a week, live on company property, and shop for thier necessities on company property, how do I know that you ask? My wife and I live in the Philippines where there is similar production facilities and has actual relatives in China working in that environment). Try having a dispute with your employer while living, eating, and borrowing from the company store --when you have a debt at the company store it kind of makes it hard to turn down overtime or just work 5 days and take a vacation for 2 whole days. Dont believe me? Google the employees who jumped off the building commiting suicide at the Apple factory. Maybe that's why Google was censored there and left the country maybe not. I wonder if you can find it anymore. As long as we allow companies to sell thier products to us and enjoy the protections our laws provide we should demand their working conditions, employee pay, and environemental protections are up to our high standards. I mean it is everyone's planet and I dont agree with slavery or near slavery anywhere.

NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85

A climbing friend who is an Engineer for GE called BD and spoke to their CEO or someone high up. He was told that cams are made here in the USA and simpl assembled in China. Same with carabiners.

I find that every sad that we supposinly and make the cams here but simply cannot assemble them here as well. Was told it was "More cost-effective to have them assembled in China."

No doubt. From a company that Chouinard started from his van making pitons here in the USA - this is what BD has now become.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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