The North Farce

In another life i raced bikes on a small low budget pro team for a couple years. I also raced on a very well respected amatur team with a large budget mostly thanks to Masters bike racers with deep pockets.

I was quite a bit younger then and i remember feeling the same about masters guys on 10K bikes all dorked out with a 4k SRM. I also used to think it was nuts how serious they all took them self and their masters bike racing.

Funny at the end on my pathetic cycling career i had burnt out as " MY ONE DIMENSIONAL DIRTBAG LIFESTYLE 6 GUYS TO A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE BURNING 5K CALORIES A DAY AND LIVING OUTA THE BARGIN BIN AT TRADER JOE'S" had come to just plain suck and not add up. The few times a year i was in my home town or at a local race i began to envy those old guys that not only got to race their bikes but could also afford a mortgage, had a girlfriend, a car worth more than their bike and didn't have to feed their "my body is a temple and a machine" crap food cuz they where broke and still had another 6 months on the road racing.

I do still laugh when i see one of those masters guys out training/riding on a pair of 4K deep dish carbon wheels. I also think ehy it could be worse you are out riding a bike as apposed to being that dink that just buzzed me in your 50-150k sports car.

Age wakes you up. Shit instead of TNF it could be a group of tweens in line at Starsucks complaining that mom and dad didn't buy me the $1000 Louis Vuitton wallet but only the $500. I'll take the old guy on a 15k bike anyday at least he is outside. Get my point it could be worse.

Plus TNF at this point is just regular clothing. I think if you want to be exclusive because you are a climber at this point you had better take up base jumping or something as climbing and anything else at this point a $$ can be made off is mainstream like it or not!!

Not that i like it either but for real grow up it is what it is!!

I still dont have two cents to rub together and live a pretty one dimensional dirt bag life. That does not mean i can't clearly see the other side of the coin. Do yourself a big favor and give it a try. I promise you will be waaaaaaay more happy if you can.

Also i loved the boulder is too the outdoors crowd as TNF is to the soccer mom. That was a good one and very accurate!! I will admit i chuckled over that one. That's been Boulder for decades you are a bit late to the show on that comment. I would take being from or living in Boulder any day of the week over most places in the United States wouldn't you?

Stich wrote: Aha! "Faded Glory" The perfect brand for most has been and never were climbers. walmart.com/ip/Faded-Glory-… I hope they are sweat shop free.

No worries, Walmart has always been known for high quality American goods.

APBT1976 wrote:...In another life i raced bikes on a small low budget pro team for a couple years. I also raced on a very well respected those old guys that not only got to race their bikes but could also afford a mortgage, had a girlfriend, a car worth more than their bike and didn't have to feed their "my body is a temple and a machine" . I think if United States wouldn't you? ....

Well put
But,I have to say that I hate the expression:"it is what it is".What if it weren't what it is?Perhaps the universe would implode?Just wondering.

I find sweat shop clothes to be the best...all that sweat keeps me warm.

About 14 years ago I was working at an EMS right outside of Hartford, CT. A couple interesting things happened while I worked there.

• During our training, we were told to look out for gang bangers looking to steal TNF jackets. We put those exploding ink-dye packages on each jacket worth over $100, but they told us not to put stock in them; they don't really protect the clothes. We were told that the 'bangers liked to steal a jacket and explode the ink packet because then all his banger-buddies would know he stole his jacket. But that got old and they started just leaving the whole ink packet on the jacket intact; apparently that was much cooler.

I remember one bold, young, urban kid who came in and talked with half the staff over a 20-minute period. Then he grabbed a jacket in the middle of the store and bolted for the door. We almost got him, but he was damn fast. I didn't know for sure, but got the feeling the kid was probably being initiated into a gang.

• I remember saving up to buy a nice technical jacket for myself for a couple weeks. During the holiday season, inevitably someone would come in and look at the model jacket that I was saving up for. I'd ask them what they planned on using the jacket for; sometimes the answer would be something like, "A ski vacation in CO for a week." Then I'd go over all the cool features of the garment. Occasionally, the next question out of the customer's mouth was something like, "Does it come in red?" It could be pretty frustrating, but if someone had $400 to blow on a jacket that they were gonna use for a week, I'd be happy to sell it to them; who the hell was I to get in their way?

Anyway, I understand what you're saying Tom. I've certainly watched TNF become much more interested in quantity over quality during the past several years. I think the last TNF piece of crap..er, clothing that I bought was a cotton hoody because it was on sale. It's quite comfortable and I wear it pretty regularly, but I won't be buying much else from them.

You gotta get over that $40 though. Why don't you go buy a not-so-crucial piece of gear from them, beat the shit out of it, and then return it. Maybe that'll make you feel better. :-)

--Marc

I've had nothing but good experiences with TNF. I have a backpack and 0 degree sleeping bag that have both been with me for 12 years, and still perform to high standards. So what if the company was popular and marketed to the general public? People waiting at the bus stop still need warm quick-drying clothing. TNF still makes quality products and I'm not about to act too cool for their equipment b/c I pass a country construction worker wearing one of their summit series soft shells. The outlet store has great buys. Think I'll go there this weekend and see what steals they have. HA!

HI Tom

I don't know if this will help you but for me it works just fine
perhaps you should buy this shirt and wear it . then ya can show the
world of posers and TNF how ya REALLY ! feel .Spencers has them and the best part is your only going to pay 12 bucks, way cheaper than a tshirt with the TNF or ????? logo.

cheers

Ice Man, how much money are we talking here? I'm rather interested..

Marc H wrote:About 14 years ago I was working at an EMS right outside of Hartford, CT. A couple interesting things happened while I worked there. *During our training, we were told to look out for gang bangers looking to steal TNF jackets. We put those exploding ink-dye packages on each jacket worth over $100, but they told us not to put stock in them; they don't really protect the clothes. We were told that the 'bangers liked to steal a jacket and explode the ink packet because then all his banger-buddies would know he stole his jacket. But that got old and they started just leaving the whole ink packet on the jacket intact; apparently that was much cooler. I remember one bold, young, urban kid who came in and talked with half the staff over a 20-minute period. Then he grabbed a jacket in the middle of the store and bolted for the door. We almost got him, but he was damn fast. I didn't know for sure, but got the feeling the kid was probably being initiated into a gang. *I remember saving up to buy a nice technical jacket for myself for a couple weeks. During the holiday season, inevitably someone would come in and look at the model jacket that I was saving up for. I'd ask them what they planned on using the jacket for; sometimes the answer would be something like, "A ski vacation in CO for a week." Then I'd go over all the cool features of the garment. Occasionally, the next question out of the customer's mouth was something like, "Does it come in red?" It could be pretty frustrating, but if someone had $400 to blow on a jacket that they were gonna use for a week, I'd be happy to sell it to them; who the hell was I to get in their way? Anyway, I understand what you're saying Tom. I've certainly watched TNF become much more interested in quantity over quality during the past several years. I think the last TNF piece of crap..er, clothing that I bought was a cotton hoody because it was on sale. It's quite comfortable and I wear it pretty regularly, but I won't be buying much else from them. You gotta get over that $40 though. Why don't you go buy a not-so-crucial piece of gear from them, beat the shit out of it, and then return it. Maybe that'll make you feel better. :-) --Marc

The giant north face puffy down coat became in fashion as low life street corner crack dealers in places like Detroit needed something to keep em warm all night while they stood on a corner for hour on end.

The fashion and glorification came from by way of the nine through 16 year old kid thinking dam i am cold i would do ANYTHING to get me one of them warm jackets.

In the grand scheme of things a $500 coat is not even all that expensive and is well within the reach of most depending on ones priorities. I am by no way saying that a $500 coat is cheap nor am i saying that it should be ones priority. However one can easily spend $1500 on a Montclear or Burberry down coat. I did see some bitchy lady with a serious snot ass tude in line at Whole Foods today and kinda judge her but only cuz i know what a good down coat is and that spending $1500 on one has nothing to do with function but rather look at me i can afford a $1500 down coat or a serious Suburban housewife clothing addiction.

Again each to there own. I bought a Mammut Gipfelgrat neo shell jacket to climb ice in this season. Although it will see something like 60 days of use this winter alone i am sure i will still get some good looks from fellow ice climbers thinking that dudes pack and jacket cost $1000 alone...

Each to there own. Some people spend it on eating out and drinks. Others spend it on $150 lift tickets. Others spend it on gyme membership and eating well. Few say the hell with me and give it all to help others. My point is if you had it you would probably spend and enjoy it also.

I agree though i just dont like the TNF name. I am in the market for a waterproof duffy and it is killing me to not buy a TNF one as it really is the best one for the job. I cant do it though, i just can't do it. But i can wear Mammut or OR, Patagonia, Feathered Friends, La Sportiva, Arcteryx, Montbell blah blah blah. Still though the gear whore in man just cant do TNF. I suppose i should make a boiled wool one outa old wool sweaters i i shrunk in the wash lol...

Just gonna say, the Denali jacket is the best fleece jacket ever made. Me and a buddy have both owned ours for over ten years. And I still wear it proudly... I'm pretty sure I'm the poser everyone hates to see wearing Arcteryx and TNF jackets around campus... But hell, why would you spend 500 bucks on a jacket to only pull it out when you're in the back country? I personally like staying warm and dry in town also.. ; )

As far as cheap clothing goes, I wear these Wrangler rip-stop cargo pants you get at places like Walmart for less than $30 any day. That's the in between season or windy fall day stuff.

I have a Target black down jacket that of course is filled with feathers that poke out of the sides. But the real down side is the poor quality of the zipper to jacket sewing. The fabric constantly gets caught in the zippers. This shit feature of cheezy jackets is pretty much removed by paying a little more for a good name brand one.

So this idea that cheap ass stuff is "just as good" is false. However, I still use this jacket and won't be replacing it until is is destroyed. I have learned to deal with the zippers...for now.

If you drew a cost curve and had that meet a features/function curve, various jackets are going to fall in there as a good option. But sometimes cheap crap is just that.

"...I did see some bitchy lady with a serious snot ass tude in line at Whole Foods today and kinda judge her but only cuz i know what a good down coat is and that spending $1500 on one has nothing to do with function but rather look at me i can afford a $1500 down coat or a serious Suburban housewife clothing addiction. Again each to there own....

...But i can wear Mammut or OR, Patagonia, Feathered Friends, La Sportiva, Arcteryx, Montbell blah blah blah...."

Fan-boys of climber-wear don't get to snivel at fashionistas. You need to embrace the whore inside you and own who you are.*

* and for the record if Arc'teryx made tampons I probably buy them and offer them to people who get butt-hurt over TNF not living up their expectations.

-sp wrote:"...I did see some bitchy lady with a serious snot ass tude in line at Whole Foods today and kinda judge her but only cuz i know what a good down coat is and that spending $1500 on one has nothing to do with function but rather look at me i can afford a $1500 down coat or a serious Suburban housewife clothing addiction. Again each to there own.... ...But i can wear Mammut or OR, Patagonia, Feathered Friends, La Sportiva, Arcteryx, Montbell blah blah blah...." Fan-boys of climber-wear don't get to snivel at fashionistas. You need to embrace the whore inside you and own who you are.* * and for the record if Arc'teryx made tampons I probably buy them and offer them to people who get butt-hurt over TNF not living up their expectations.

Ha haha,

I am kinda thinking that i am gonna have no choice in the matter with the neon orange and blue zippers on my new Neo Shell jacket. I say haters keep on hatin! I look like a techno zuppy ice star and dam good imop. Aint that what matters what i think not YOU ;)!!!

If you gonna judge me based on what i wear it is probably cuz i am making you look silly in some way or another. If not than you probably got some personal agenda in regard to the topic at hand like the op and got all but hurt somewhere along the line.

The only real problem i have with my own climbing gear whore addiction is it ties directly into consumerism the more more more American and in many cases world mentality that is destroying the planet and a more simple way of life. Even more than the pollution created by the replace it mentality before it is broke bothering me what bothers me more is that our pursuit of SHIT at the end of the day mostly has made it impossible to live a simple life and instead we must now all fight just to survive. Consider yourself dam lucky if you have the time a resources to do something like climb as many that would love to are busy working 3-4 jobs to make rent. Some life right. Imop the shit and stuff is to blame.

None the less i still pick the stuff i am gonna spend on after all it's the American Human way no? For some it a expensive luxury vacation, plastic surgery, a expensive sports car or a hand made suit. Others its cams, ropes, shells and ice picks!! Pick your poison its all meds for the soul. Or is it what is making us sick and not medicine at all?

APBT1976 wrote: Ha haha, I am kinda thinking that i am gonna have no choice in the matter with the neon orange and blue zippers on my new Neo Shell jacket. I say haters keep on hatin! I look like a techno zuppy ice star and dam good imop. Aint that what matters what i think not YOU ;)!!! If you gonna judge me based on what i wear it is probably cuz i am making you look silly in some way or another. If not than you probably got some personal agenda in regard to the topic at hand like the op and got all but hurt somewhere along the line. The only real problem i have with my own climbing gear whore addiction is it ties directly into consumerism the more more more American and in many cases world mentality that is destroying the planet and a more simple way of life. Even more than the pollution created by the replace it mentality before it is broke bothering me what bothers me more is that our pursuit of SHIT at the end of the day mostly has made it impossible to live a simple life and instead we must now all fight just to survive. Consider yourself dam lucky if you have the time a resources to do something like climb as many that would love to are busy working 3-4 jobs to make rent. Some life right. Imop the shit and stuff is to blame. None the less i still pick the stuff i am gonna spend on after all it's the American Human way no? For some it a expensive luxury vacation, plastic surgery, a expensive sports car or a hand made suit. Others its cams, ropes, shells and ice picks!! Pick your poison its all meds for the soul. Or is it what is making us sick and not medicine at all?

I try to be economical in my personal production of waste; I shop locally (when I can) and support companies that make design excellence a priority. I feel vaguely guilty I don't/can't do more, but I do enjoy my brightly colored plastic garments.

Tom Hanson wrote:Josh, I'm not losing sleep over it but: Take a $35.00 jacket, stitch a North Farce logo on it and sell it for $125.00 ? ....and people actually shell out the $125.00 Bwahahaha.

take a 25 dollar jacket and put any outdoor brand logo on it and sell it for 5x the amount and then you have R&D money, can pay employees, stay in business, etc.

Or make it in china for $15, put a dead bird logo on it , and sell it for $600 and profit! Ok so it probably costs them $35.

Black diamond gear is now made in china too and the price is still high.

-sp wrote:"...I did see some bitchy lady with a serious snot ass tude in line at Whole Foods today and kinda judge her but only cuz i know what a good down coat is and that spending $1500 on one has nothing to do with function but rather look at me i can afford a $1500 down coat or a serious Suburban housewife clothing addiction. Again each to there own...."

I'm not sure who originally wrote/said this, but I hope they working as a cashier at Whole Foods at the time, and not waiting in line to buy a $5 free-range holistic apple and bottle of kombucha.

Edit: I'd hate to think that things weren't being kept real in the Whole Foods parking lot.

Ryan Kelly wrote: I'm not sure who originally wrote/said this, but I hope they working as a cashier at Whole Foods at the time, and not waiting in line to buy a $5 free-range holistic apple and bottle of kombucha. Edit: I'd hate to think that things weren't being kept real in the Whole Foods parking lot.

Yup dude i don't like chemicals and pesticides in my food. I will pass on the cancer thank you very much. What do they say an ounce of prevention!!

I don't think eating organic non processed food should be a luxury but a given. I think if people wanna eat refined sugars and chemical laden space food they should be paying extra for that. I will go broke making sure as little chemicals enter my body as possible!!!

But yeah i keep it real in the Whole Foods parking lot, real real ;)

Ryan Kelly wrote: I'm not sure who originally wrote/said this, but I hope they working as a cashier at Whole Foods at the time, and not waiting in line to buy a $5 free-range holistic apple and bottle of kombucha. Edit: I'd hate to think that things weren't being kept real in the Whole Foods parking lot.

Not me!

APBT1976 wrote: Yup dude i don't like chemicals and pesticides in my food. I will pass on the cancer thank you very much. What do they say an ounce of prevention!! I don't think eating organic non processed food should be a luxury but a given. I think if people wanna eat refined sugars and chemical laden space food they should be paying extra for that. I will go broke making sure as little chemicals enter my body as possible!!! But yeah i keep it real in the Whole Foods parking lot, real real ;)

You could grow more food in your closet in a few months than you could fit in a whole foods shopping cart. Fraction of the cost and as organic as you want it to be. Just sayin...

Ryan Williams wrote: You could grow more food in your closet in a few months than you could fit in a whole foods shopping cart. Fraction of the cost and as organic as you want it to be. Just sayin...

In another life a decade or so ago i was very good at growing organic stuff indoors. So good i didn't work for almost a decade after ;) I know all about how easy growing stuff in your closet can be more than most!!

On the other hand you need time and space for all that. Spring summer and fall i live outa a local organic farm down the street. I just eat what they grow. I buy two shares as i east a shit ton as i also have a bad running habit. I do still depend on Whole PayCheck for my meat and fish. I hate that part but have not found a reliable source of organic fed chicken, lamb or salmon so ;) ?

I have def considered growing my own vegetables indoors in the winter but something tells me it will take a shit ton of time and the cost of all those HPS lights, Mylar, co2, Air conditioners, light movers, hydro tables, soil, nutrients, meters blah blah blah will cost a fortune to start. Not even taking into consideration my electric bill. Shit in the early 90's my electric bill was almost $1000 a month much of the year.

Believe me i would love to grow all my own veg in my closet as i am also a germaphobe and hate the thought of all the hands that touch my food before it makes it to my plate never mind all the chemicals and pesticides. Tbh the whole food thing really grosses me out and pisses me off. It should not be this way! It's what the majority want though so the rest of us that don't get fucked!!!