Stickclipping a redpoint attempt

Johny Q wrote: I can't believe you would spend that much time writing crap that no one will read. Good job avoiding personal insults and not getting offended. As for people caring about what you say, I really doubt it. This is a troll thread through and through, you just don't have enough brain cells to realize it. I pity the fool who takes the troll thread seriously.

I actually read the whole thing and I thought he did a pretty good job of making you look like a complete toolbag.

please read the "climbing in Haiti" thread to put life into perspective.

I started climbing in the early 90's, don't really climb much anymore, I just like to come here and fire up the trolls a bit.
We had no crash pads, just carpet squares.
Stick clips came along a few years later.
I have never used one, or even wanted to.
If you can't make the first few moves safely, should you really be trying the whole route? I guess I understand if the crux is at the beginning, but TRing the beginning changes the whole start of the climb in my opinion. If you really want it clean, use crash pads?!
Of course, I will yo-yo lead... climb up clip, climb down rest, climb back up and go for it.

Back to fly fishing...

M LaViolette Jr. wrote:a totally legit Dean Potter style free solo

Wow, that sounds awesum. Please Hammer, don't hurt em!

Tevis Blom wrote:I started climbing in the early 90's, ... We had no crash pads, just carpet squares. Stick clips came along a few years later. ...

No, stick clips have been around at least since the mid-80's, probably much longer.

M LaViolette Jr. wrote: I actually read the whole thing and I thought he did a pretty good job of making you look like a complete toolbag.

Wow, you must not have much to do in your life.

I am sorry your feelings got hurt over the idea your comments don't count either because your a chuffer. But they don't.

Tevis Blom wrote:I started climbing in the early 90's, don't really climb much anymore, I just like to come here and fire up the trolls a bit. We had no crash pads, just carpet squares. Stick clips came along a few years later. I have never used one, or even wanted to. If you can't make the first few moves safely, should you really be trying the whole route? I guess I understand if the crux is at the beginning, but TRing the beginning changes the whole start of the climb in my opinion. If you really want it clean, use crash pads?! Of course, I will yo-yo lead... climb up clip, climb down rest, climb back up and go for it. Back to fly fishing...

BS. I have been climbing since the early 90's too, and I assure you that pads and stick-clips were around back then.

M LaViolette Jr. wrote: Let's be clear, I couldn't possibly care less if you stick clip or not. The point I'm trying to make is if one person climbs a route with a stick clip and one person climbs the same route without one they have done two different things. It's not entirely honest to call it the same thing. How is that not clear?

They are not different enough to warrant distinction. The fact that you don't understand that shows you don't have enough experience to be having this discussion.

You are like the woman in this video

an article that describes the history of the crash pad, first commercially available in 1993.

climbing.com/print/equipmen…

I could not find information on the early stick clips, but I am guessing they started making them (commercially) around the same time.
Anyway, I still think they suck!

Tevis Blom wrote:commercially available? I had some duct-taped couch cushions... I remember people started really carrying pads for bouldering in the late 90's. And yep, I'm sure some wanker pussy was using some home made stick clip back in the 80's so they could A0 their route. Whether they were commercially available or not, who cares. I've always liked pads, but hated the stick clip thing. I guess I will have to settle for, "they were not prevalent" but thanks for calling out my BS, troll...

Yes, commercially available. I definitely remember pads at Horsetooth in '93. And who buys "commercially available" stick clips even today? Most everyone makes their own. If you're really that bold, why are you sport climbing in the first place?

If you are against stick clips, then in my mind you should really shun all sport climbing tactics. And without sport tactics, not only would modern difficulty standards be lower, but the average climber would not be climbing anywhere near the level that they are today.

Andrew Haag wrote: ... We have to train our minds to learn the difference between legitimate fear and fear of the unknown. It's hard to do when you always mitigate that fear with a stickclip or Top rope.

I'd say that instances where a stick clip is warranted constitute a pretty legitimate fear! Good chance of falling and hitting the ground? That is not fear of the unknown...that is a perfectly good reason to be scared.

@ sahalie
"yeah, they suck, but so do bolts, guidebooks, mountainproject, chain anchors, trails, trade tat anchors, lycra, and beanies."

Best thing said on this thread so far!

@csproul... sorry for calling you a troll, coffee still sinking in!
And yes, I still think duct tape and a broom stick would suffice.
And, I never climbed hard enough to push the envelope beyond personally, so I'd have to agree about harder shit getting done...
The whole thing reminds me of swinging leads with a buddy though. I never felt like I did the whole route unless we went back and switched leads, because leading it 'felt' harder. Anyway, if we are climbing to appease everyone else, then we are missing the point. If one feels good stick clipping, then go ahead. If one feels they have cheated their own ascent, then skip the stick.

The thing that most amuses me about this thread is the thought that using a stick clip and being bold are mutually exclusive. As I tried to state earlier in this thread, I have stick clipped many a sport route, and have also completed many climbs that are run-out and scary. This summer I soloed a few things in the backcountry as well. Does the fact that I have used a stick clip while sport climbing negate these other types of ascents as well?

I choose to stick clip while sport climbing for the reasons that many have said above, not really that psyched to break an ankle for practice climbing (read: sport climbing).
I would rather be intact, healthy and confident in my climbing fitness so that when the chips are really down on something bold, I have the ability to do it.

Take stick clipping in sport climbing for what it is, a safe way to improve your climbing so that you can take other aspects of your game to a new level.

Andrew Haag wrote: Some of the hardest climbs out there to date are deep water solos. PS: The average climber is in the 5.10 range, not the 5.13 range.

But 5.13 would have taken much longer to get to without sport tactics. There would be far fewer 5.13 climbers out there now, and the average climber would almost certainly be climbing below 5.10!

Andrew Haag wrote: I guess it depends on the resons you climb, If your sole reason for climbing is to get up hard moves, by all means do what you need to do. Personally I have a strong fear of heights and falling, I try to climb in a way to address my fears and deal with the mental crux of climbing, the real crux. The physical movement is nothing more than exercize. The true test of climbing is keeping your head together in a fight or flight state of mind. Personally,Im an addict so I love that adrenalin. I also hate being afraid so I would rather risk life and limb than allow the fear to control my life. After all, control is just a mirage and we are all destined to die. Most of the fear we create in our mind is all bullshit anyways. We have to train our minds to learn the difference between legitimate fear and fear of the unknown. It's hard to do when you always mitigate that fear with a stickclip or Top rope. Alot of hard sport climbers are just that because they are afraid to climb any other way. It is an acceptable standard to work hard climbs on TR and stick clip those first couple bolts all for the glory of the send. Thats awesome, we all do it. Do we do it everytime? I dont, and I would hope that not everyone does. If you do you are missing out on a greater accomplishment. Mastery of your own mind. Something people have been trying to acheive for thousands of years. Climbing is just another way to achieve that. Hard grades builds strong followers, Mastery of mind builds strong leadership skills. Combine the two for a mental and physical challenge and get rewarded with an experience your never going to forget!

Is everyone from Arizona this stupid and dense? God damn you say some stupid things..

Andrew Haag wrote: Removable bolts are the way of the future, in regards to sport climbing. It makes sense. Eventually a majority of the bolts we have in are going to rust out, just like all those quarter inchers are doing now. If professional sport climbers continue to bolt crags for the use of removable bolts, it will eventually become an end all for fixed draws and stick clipping. After all people wont spend 40bucks a pop for a removable bolt just to leave there gear in the wall, and it's gunna be really difficult to stick clip that tiny first hole from the ground. It may take 20 more years for us to see it, however it is the way of the future.

Doubtful. RB's get stuck easily making them an ineffective substitute for real bolts. In addition, depending on the stone, RB holes will get worn out from repeated use leaving us with the problem of having to find new places to drill replacement holes. I also think that people would be able to devise a way to stick an RB in a hole from the ground, humans are innovative.

So how about this...here in NC, a place that has resisted sport climbing and has a history of traditional ground up ethics, there are a few climbs that went up with the first piece of protection being a slung tree branch. The branches were slung from the tree or from the ground to protect the opening moves until better protection could be found. Is this better than stick-clipping? What about now that the tree is gone and no longer protects the start? Is it ok to stick clip the first bolt on Strawberry Preserves (assuming you had a long enough stick) since the FA had the benefit of the tree? BTW, the crux is right before bolt.

Andrew Haag wrote: I agree with you, however climbing harder grades doesnt mean that we have moved foward as a climbing community. Climbing harder is a personall achievment and does nothing for the community or the rock. Using stick clips promotes lazyness and it inhibits the process of moving foward to protect the rock. Our ultamite goal as a climber is to protect the rock from huge devolpment so that we, and future generations can enjoy what mother nature has provided for us.

I guess you consider hard climbing to be lazy?! I consider your inability to spell-check to be lazy!

Andrew Haag wrote: Spell check has NUTHING to do with climbing.

No, it doesn't. But I bet there is a pretty good correlation between spelling, grammar, and the ability to construct an argument that doesn't make you sound like a complete tool.

Andrew Haag wrote: If I sounded like a complete tool than it should be ez to bring up valid points that defend your argument. Instead you have decided to attack me personally now since you think I am attacking you. I dont even know you. Im just giving my opinion, the same as everyone else. The difference is, does your opinion involve me, or is it purley about the sport?

Your opinion is retarded. Sorry I am with everyone else, stop sniffing the glue you are making no sense. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about so why bother giving your opinion on the matter?