Best notchless biners?

I looked through the archives but couldn't find anything. I want to switch out my draws to notchless. Recommendations? Anyone done it and didn't like it?

Wild Country Heliums (wires) and DMM Shadows (solid gates) are both excellent.

for what it is worth I bought a Petzle Ange to play with and its cool, but wicked tiny in size and gate opening. At the moment i only use it for racking my point and shoot camera.

I really like the new BD Hoodwires.

I picked up a handful of the new large size Petzl Ange. So far they are my favourite biner. I also own a DMM Shield quickdraw and I don't care at all for the "twisted" wiregate on it. I've played with Heliums and they seem really nice, but I would pick the Petzl Ange L over Heliums. Unfortunately they are both equally expensive.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll probably buy a couple of each one and then decide from there. And thanks to johnL, I'll pee my pants anytime I get above a Helium.

PS - do the small Anges clip about the same as a Nano or are they harder to clip?

Heliums are sweet but stupid expensive ($12.95 retail), wiregate, full size, and almost the lightest out there. The Camp Photon would be my second choice at $9.95.

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I found the single wire on the Ange to be strange to open, it felt like my thumb would slip off the wire, but increasingly I don't put a thumb or finger on the gate at all, just weight the gate againist whatever I'm clipping into.

I think going with full-size biners is a good idea, a little extra space helps. Also, do the math, saving a few grams on each biner doesn't add up to much, maybe one pound for a full rack. I don't think it makes a huge difference but if you got the $ go for the best, i.e. Heliums.

+1 on the Heliums. Have used them exclusively for my ice/alpine rack since they came out and love 'em. Stoopid expensive, but in bulk, they're "only" $10ish. Ha! I've used my buddy's Ange biners on some ice leads, and the size isn't quite the issue I expected it to be - that's with skinny ropes though. They can ice up something fierce in very wet conditions too. There's only like a 4 or 5 gram difference between the Helium and the Ange, and for me, the weight is worth the easier handling/clipping.

I assume you're talking about sport draws...

Notchless only matters on the bolt end, so I have settled on:

• Bolt end: DMM Aero straight-gates. A bit cheaper than the DMM Shadow (but slightly weaker in open and minor-axis strength). One of my partners has some newer DMM draws with the DMM Alpha carabiners—very nice.
• Rope end: Metolius Inferno. Wire gates are nice for the rope end, and these are big (easy-to-clip), relatively inexpensive, and very strong.
• Dogbones: Petzl. Easier to clip than shoestring draws, and much easier to grab and hang onto :-)

I have the WC heliums and think they're great. They're very easy to clip, fit well in my hand, are easy to remove from the wall and my harness, super light and, quite frankly, they just look cool.

Negatives - Compared to the dirtbag draws that I have, they do seem do wear more, but not to the point that I'd have to retire them (I've had them 2 years now). The wear I've noticed is from the anchor end where you can see the scratches more so than on the anchor end of my dirtbag draws.
- Another thing is that the dogbones they come with aren't particularly inspiring. I switched them all out for the petzl Express dogbones.
- The Price, as you know, is up there. Cheapest I've seen them on sale is 18 per draw, which isn't too bad.
- Lastly, I don't know about all the different biners out there but I think the petzl spirit has a longer warranty and they're comfortingly beefier.

For sport I have Petzl Spirits, and love them. For trad I have Helium's with Mammut 60cm slings made into alpine draws. They were all expensive, but well worth it in my opinion.

Austin Baird wrote:Thanks for the suggestions. I'll probably buy a couple of each one and then decide from there. And thanks to johnL, I'll pee my pants anytime I get above a Helium. PS - do the small Anges clip about the same as a Nano or are they harder to clip?

The small ange biners are way easier to clip than the nano. As a matter of fact they arent that bad at all. I got 2 of them and use em exclusivly for racking cams. The few times i clipped directly into those biners they are very smooth. I wouldnt reccomend them for ice climbing tho.

Ryan Williams wrote:Wild Country Heliums (wires) and DMM Shadows (solid gates) are both excellent.

+1 (expensive though)
BD hoodwires good alternative at a good price. Love the heliums though.

Only 1 person so far voted for Spirits? That's surprising.

I haven't had the chance to use them yet (they are never in stock) but I am pretty excited about these hitting the market. DMM Alpha Trad & DMM Alpha Light

Spirits are the BOMB. A bit heavier, but they take some serious use before wearing them out!

I just use solid-gate biners on the bolt-end. Positrons are what I have, but if I was buying again I'd sure look at the Spirit.

If weight is really that big of a deal, it's because I'm going alpine, and the climbing isn't going to be as hard, and I can deal with snags. In those cases I just use one notched wiregate or another. (Usually new Hotwires, OZ or Nano23)

I guess if you climb super-hard sport or alpine lines the snagless wiregates might be the ticket, but I'm not that hard. Just fondling them the simple design of the Helium appeals to me the most. BD and Petzl seem like inferior designs to avoid patent infringement.

Another vote for the Petzl Spirits... I like them for wriggling onto crowded bolt hangers (was psyched to find locking ones for my daisy chains), and the "grip" thingys on the gates- makes me slightly less fumble-fingered.

+2 for Petzl Spirits, though a bit on the heavy side.
In my opinion, they, in straight- and bent-gate forms, still set the standard for solid-gate biners.
I have not used enough types of wire-gate biners to have a preference for any.

johnL wrote:Have you noticed that every report of a biner stabbing a falling climbers arm is with a helium? They aren't sharp but there might be something about their shape that lines them up to skewer.

I have noticed that actually. I know one of the guys. He lost his pinky finger and all use of his ring finger, but actually climbs harder now, after the incident. Go figure.

I haven't asked him if he still uses that biner.

Perin Blanchard wrote:I assume you're talking about sport draws... Notchless only matters on the bolt end, so I have settled on: * Bolt end: DMM Aero straight-gates. A bit cheaper than the DMM Shadow (but slightly weaker in open and minor-axis strength). One of my partners has some newer DMM draws with the DMM Alpha carabiners—very nice. * Rope end: Metolius Inferno. Wire gates are nice for the rope end, and these are big (easy-to-clip), relatively inexpensive, and very strong. * Dogbones: Petzl. Easier to clip than shoestring draws, and much easier to grab and hang onto :-)

That's a pretty solid sport draw, seeing as you can get both the Shadow and the Inferno pretty cheaplthese days.