The answer to the inevitable Peaks question.

Greg wrote:Bolting in wilderness area with power drill = illegal. 100%

Yep

+100

Has anyone denied that The Peaks have been power bolted....no.

Only you and your several accounts have made that accusation. Were you there? Are you watching over Tommy Caldwell's shoulder too? Probably.

+1 again.

Unless the bolters are VISUALLY WITNESSED power-bolting, this is a non-issue. It is all hand-wringing speculation - which is, at best, circumstantial, and at worst, projection of personal hatred towards any bolting.

Erik Wolfe

Peter Franzen wrote: Moderation: How about this as an alternative: Let's try to keep this thread from drifting further off-topic by discussing the matter at hand rather than people's user names.

Mr. Franzen: You're right. I formally apologize for the further thread drifting. Now, shame on you for not offering a suggestion for SC's new name. Can anyone have some fun around here? You're all sooooo serious. Is that any way to be?

Back on topic. I've never been to the Peaks. I will probably never go unless it turns out to be a world class climbing destination. Then... maybe. But maybe not.

People are concerned about crowds showing up if the word gets out. Is it that good that it will draw people from around the world? My own experience at the Cathedral Spires in South Dakota says No, it won't. To me, the spires ARE a world class destination, but I see people there about every third time I go. It's empty! And the word has been out for 50 years. It's not a sport crag, and it sounds like the Peaks are, so it may be different. And I haven't climbed around the world, so my basis for defining "world class destination" is pretty narrow.

Now, the issue with bolting and illegal and parks department and forest service and closing and chopping.... the OP Will Cobb sounds to me like he has his head on right. Valid concerns, and valid paths to address the concerns. Will needs an army (with pens, not guns) to back him up. Nothing is as effective as honest, open communication between all interested parties, and that seems like what Will is striving for. If you AZins want to keep your crag open, you need to band together to be effective. Good luck, I wish you the best.

Hey dostol, your proudest tick appears to be a 5.7+ called the arête at mcconell mills. I got news for you. It has a bolt. Who put it there? Did they act with legislative authority? More important, did they endure the soul sapping endless whining of every Internet wanker with a full keyboard and half a brain? Or did they just go put up a fun route for you to later enjoy? Did the hunters and fishermen weigh in with their thoughts on that bolt? How bout the other bolts you've clipped albeit few since you appear to barely climb on rocks? Here is the deal. There are some people like Jimbo (refer to recent post on other peaks thread), Eric F, JJ, Manny and others who have put up TRAD and sport routes we all can enjoy. They've invested more in this beautiful endeavor than you or I ever will. Their payment? Endless bitching on Internet forums by soulless weasels. And the knowledge of all the actual rock climbers who have achieved lasting internal stoke on their routes and who might even, from time to time, say thank you. Which type of person are you?

NOW we are getting somewhere. So your state park should be terribly ravished by these bolts which now festoon the cliffs, making the area impossible to enjoy??? Your own actions prove my point. Logic, my non-friend. Like colorful language. Try using it.

In case that is not clear enough for you: you have now admitted that your anti-bolt rants are simply hypocrisy.

And as a noob, show a bit of respect. Particularly a noob blathering on about an area you have never seen. Noobs aren't bad per se. Just ones who act like they are experts when they are self-confessed novices. Go back to the gunks and crusade against chalk or something. Farewell.

I think it would be fair to say that we only should give serious consideration (as far as internet postings go) to those who have a fair assessment of the area in question.

We all gain nothing, and in fact, a detriment, by responding to the likes of Distol, Superclimber and others. People who weigh in with no sense of the area, and are simply reacting to their own, different geographic issues surrounding access and climbing.

This is a regional part of the forum, and we would all do it justice by keeping that in mind.

dostol wrote:Given some more thought... I've spoken out in favor of "Leave No Trace", of obeying ordinances with drilling, and in general being able to disagree with people without attacking them. I've met with opposition with the big majority of folk on here. Some hate. :)

There was a time when people who really didn't know jack about climbing kept their mouths shut so that they could learn from those who did know. Perhaps this is why people are disagreeing with you? You don't have a dam clue yet you maintain your right to espouse your cluelessness. It's too bad really, this crazy idea that we are all equal and thus should have an equal say is a determent for our society, climbing and otherwise. On the other hand, I love the Arizona hate. Keep it up guys.

LOL, leave no trace ethics!!! The best way to erase your trace is to dig a dying hole with your bare hands and jump in. Any other action involves leaving a trace.

Johny Q wrote: There was a time when people who really didn't know jack about climbing kept their mouths shut so that they could learn from those who did know. Perhaps this is why people are disagreeing with you? You don't have a dam clue yet you maintain your right to espouse your cluelessness. It's too bad really, this crazy idea that we are all equal and thus should have an equal say is a determent for our society, climbing and otherwise. On the other hand, I love the Arizona hate. Keep it up guys. LOL, leave no trace ethics!!! The best way to erase your trace is to dig a dying hole with your bare hands and jump in. Any other action involves leaving a trace.

Well I take it your not an American. Here in the USA were are ALL EQUAL.

So JQ, who isn't equal enough to comment on the USA public lands? Whites, Blacks, Natives, Republicans, Dems, non AZ residents, hikers, skiers, ETC????

Mark S wrote: Well I take it your not an American. Here in the USA were are ALL EQUAL.

HAAA! One of the more entertaining things I have read in a while. God bless America! :)

I will make sure to quote you as I weigh in on Quantum Gravity Theory at the next Stephen Hawkings lecture I attend. I expect that my opinion will be taken seriously.

No offense Mark S but I think that some people are better qualified to weigh in on particular topics than others.

Mark S wrote: Well I take it your not an American. Here in the USA were are ALL EQUAL. So JQ, who isn't equal enough to comment on the USA public lands? Whites, Blacks, Natives, Republicans, Dems, non AZ residents, hikers, skiers, ETC????

Actually, it states "equal under the law". The constitution does not state that we are equal in intellect or ability to reason. People can comment, but when they get called out for not knowing the issue very well than . . .

Nice try calling me a bigot you simpleton.

All from the guy that lives in LA.

You don't live in Flag any more.

Erice's next response "I am a guide book co-author"

Just makes you a carpet bagger and riding on a locals back.


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