Black Diamond Aspect Climbing Harness **FAILURE** warning long post

Never trusted those speed buckles. Probably never will.

Angela what made you go from a Caddy to a BD in the first place? Misty Mountain makes the best harnesses in the world!

Ryan Williams wrote: The way they handle this issue will determine how I view the company for a long time.

I quit using BD products several years ago because of the way they handled the malfunction of some of their gear. In that case someone was injured. BD acted like total douche bags then, and they seem to be getting even worse.

I pointed all this out in several forums in the past...and was basically told BD was the shit and I was an idiot.

So let me just take this moment to say...I TOLD YOU SO!!!

...and give BD my middle finger one more time.

josh

J. Thompson wrote: I quit using BD products several years ago because of the way they handled the malfunction of some of their gear. In that case someone was injured. BD acted like total douche bags then, and they seem to be getting even worse. I pointed all this out in several forums in the past...and was basically told BD was the shit and I was an idiot. So let me just take this moment to say...I TOLD YOU SO!!! ...and give BD my middle finger one more time. josh

Any chance you could post/PM me some more information on this incident?

Heh, I bought the same harness about a year ago, and yes, it happened to me once. Fortunately I was on the ground when it worked loose. I ascribed it to user error. Since then I've carefully focused each time I put on the harness and it hasn't happened again, even with the gear loops full. When new the belt material is slippery and combined with the speed buckle can work free under the right circumstances. Mine has been through a year of climbing and the slipperiness is worn off. It works perfectly now. My two cents.

I find it ironic that Chouinard bankrupted Chouinard Equipment to save it from liability lawsuits after a guy died INCORRECTLY using a Chouinard harness. It is disappointing Black Diamond, Chouinard's Equip.'s restructured offspring, is not more interested in immediately addressing a harness incident this serious.

I remembered when ang had that legloop buckle slip problem on both harnesses. tonite I compared the bd harness with my petzl harness. The bd buckle can slip. It was much more difficult to make the petzle buckle slip. Would be difficult to show this on video. I will say there is a design difference in the petzl buckles compared to the bd buckles. The bigger part of the buckle is bent. I might also speculate that the smaller buckle of the bd system may be slightly too large.

To the OP, can you clarify what you mean by the leg loops coming "UNDONE". Your post was difficult to understand what exactly happened amidst all the busy-ness of the post. Was the route a 5.11b or c? Jk I know it doesn't matter. I could not replicate a natural situation where the leg loop strap comes off the buckle.

I have had leg loops slip before. But now I only use fixed leg loops because they are the only kind that are small enough for my legs.

Darren Mabe wrote: Awesome. ;) I remembered when ang had that legloop buckle slip problem on both harnesses. tonite I compared the bd harness with my petzl harness. The bd buckle can slip. It was much more difficult to make the petzle buckle slip. Would be difficult to show this on video. I will say there is a design difference in the petzl buckles compared to the bd buckles. The bigger part of the buckle is bent. I might also speculate that the smaller buckle of the bd system may be slightly too large. To the OP, can you clarify what you mean by the leg loops coming "UNDONE". Your post was difficult to understand what exactly happened amidst all the busy-ness of the post. Was the route a 5.11b or c? Jk I know it doesn't matter. I could not replicate a natural situation where the leg loop strap comes off the buckle. I have had leg loops slip before. But now I only use fixed leg loops because they are the only kind that are small enough for my legs.

I've taken falls on an Adjama and it hasn't ever slipped. My Adjama hasn't slipped from getting handled or tossed in my pack either.

There is no amount of acceptable slip for such a buckle, full stop.

Darren Mabe wrote: To the OP, can you clarify what you mean by the leg loops coming "UNDONE". Your post was difficult to understand what exactly happened amidst all the busy-ness of the post.

When I said "UNDONE", I mean it came completely off my leg, wasn't wrapped around my leg, wasn't fastened to my leg, wasn't hanging on my leg, and so forth. It was totally OFF, as in the straps off went through both buckles and were wide open. I hope that didn't seem like a dick response.

To make the matter more clear on how it harness was weighted prior and that I was 100% double back, I was the one that cleaned the route on the previous climb. I was hanging up top, weighting the harness, taking out draws from the anchors and was lowered down safely. But there was no actual "tug", like the fall my friend took, that weighted that harness. I hope that some what make sense?

Ty Harlacker wrote:Does it have a UIAA approval on it?

You can see the CE tag in the picture.

UIAA=CE

Product number of harness

BASE1361 wrote: You can see the CE tag in the picture. UIAA=CE

Actually no, it doesn't. Light-bulb's can have a CE rating. UIAA is climbing specific.
From Wikepedia "The UIAA Safety Commission develops and maintains safety standards for climbing equipment. These standards are implemented world-wide by the manufacturers who also participate in annual Safety Commission meetings."I could go into farther details but the OP is of the opinion the BD need's this thread to be concise. I don't think BD gives a shit.

Just wanted to mention that I've been climbing in my BD Momentum AL harness for a few years now, and I've never noticed any loosening. Then again, the AL doesn't have the speed buckle things. Perhaps that's the difference? I don't doubt that it has happened to other people, I've just never personally noticed it. Just my 2¢

Ty Harlacker wrote: Actually no, it doesn't. Light-bulb's can have a CE rating. UIAA is climbing specific. From Wikepedia "The UIAA Safety Commission develops and maintains safety standards for climbing equipment. These standards are implemented world-wide by the manufacturers who also participate in annual Safety Commission meetings."I could go into farther details but the OP is of the opinion the BD need's this thread to be concise. I don't think BD gives a shit.

Here you go n00b. Read it and get with the program.

The UIAA collaborates with the European Standards organization, CEN, for harmonization of standards. In some cases, the UIAA asks for additional tests making the standard stricter than the CEN. Thus, the UIAA standards may differ slightly from the CEN standards.

theuiaa.org/safety_standard…

For more reading

rockandice.com/rockandicefo…

BASE1361 wrote: Here you go n00b. Read it a get with the program.

Dude, did you read what you just posted? I will quote some of it so you might get a grasp of the concept.

"The CE tests aren’t always realistic—for the crampon test they use a static load rather than flex the crampon, as you would in real life. Because the test isn’t realistic, the certification doesn’t mean much.”

“CE certification doesn’t guarantee a thing,” says Bushey. “We’ve seen CE-certified carabiners arrive, new, with cracked gates.”

The UIAA
This venerable international climbing federation, formed in 1932, established the first safety standards for climbing gear. Today, the UIAA continues in this role, with various standards for ropes, cord and slings, harnesses, helmets, carabiners and rock and ice pro, and is currently developing standards for belay and rappel devices.

I'm trying to "get with the program", but this reading thing is really hard. Should I just give up and be a fry-cook? Maybe take the carts back to the store? I don't think they hire n00bs though. Maybe there's a n00b disability act? Hey! maybe I'm on to something here. Actually, sitting here being an ass sounds better. I'll just spray about things I have no knowledge or understanding of, under the anonymity of the net.

RNclimber wrote: To make the matter more clear on how it harness was weighted prior and that I was 100% double back

I think you may be using the term double backed incorrectly for a speed buckle. I've never heard it used in conjunction with a speed buckle and it's sort of confusing since you don't actually double back a speed buckle, you just tighten it. I would gather you just mean the harness was threaded through the buckles correctly and tightened.

mike h wrote:I just purchased a BD Aspect ~2 weeks ago from REI here in Denver. I see a difference between my buckles and yours - don't have a camera but it'd be great if others would check their own. It looks like the top/smaller piece on your buckle is flat, and is shorter than the bottom piece. It also looks to me like the sewn end, while pulling on the buckle, could pull on the top piece and open or loosen the buckle. On my buckle, both pieces' openings are approximately the same length, but the top/smaller one is bent in a way on the sewn side such that it always sits back, and will never be pulled on by the sewn loop. It is also impossible, without this bent end hanging off one side, to have the two pieces sit flat against each other.

Agreed, Mike, mine looks exactly like what you described. Definitely different from the photos the OP took. Mine is also Phillipines 2010, Lot #: 10DPBH12-01

edit to add: I've never had any problems with loosening or anything, despite multiple falls in it.

Rob Gordon wrote:Never trusted those speed buckles. Probably never will.

That's what I get from this whole discussion. I prefer the kind you can double back like on my old Yates.

Ty Harlacker wrote: Dude, did you read what you just posted? I will quote some of it so you might get a grasp of the concept. "The CE tests aren’t always realistic—for the crampon test they use a static load rather than flex the crampon, as you would in real life. Because the test isn’t realistic, the certification doesn’t mean much.” “CE certification doesn’t guarantee a thing,” says Bushey. “We’ve seen CE-certified carabiners arrive, new, with cracked gates.” The UIAA This venerable international climbing federation, formed in 1932, established the first safety standards for climbing gear. Today, the UIAA continues in this role, with various standards for ropes, cord and slings, harnesses, helmets, carabiners and rock and ice pro, and is currently developing standards for belay and rappel devices. I'm trying to "get with the program", but this reading thing is really hard. Should I just give up and be a fry-cook? Maybe take the carts back to the store? I don't think they hire n00bs though. Maybe there's a n00b disability act? Hey! maybe I'm on to something here. Actually, sitting here being an ass sounds better. I'll just spray about things I have no knowledge or understanding of, under the anonymity of the net.

For someone who knows nothing about the CE/UIAA system and has to ask the difference on another thread you certainly are full of s*it.

The harness is marked CE0082 which is the correct marking showing it conforms to the European Directive on Personal Protective Equipment and to conform it must pass the test specified in EN 12277 (and it is a category C harness under this norm as it shows).
The UIAA requirement is that it conforms to EN 12277 with the additional requirement that if any of the load-bearing stitching is exposed then 50% of the visible stitching shall be of a contrasting colour.

And anyone with more than the intelligence of a mouse could check on the UIAA website and discover that the Aspect harness has an active UIAA Safety Label.

This might be all the motivation I need to finally get that Misty Mountain harness I've been eyeing.

Scott Hansen wrote:I emailed a link to this post to their service dept

Did the same. And we both got a response that the original contact was poorly handled by them and that someone from BD is getting back to the OP. Sounds like they may be doing a more serious look at the complaint.