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Black Diamond Aspect Climbing Harness **FAILURE** warning long post

Jan Tarculas · · Riverside, Ca · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 917
sunder wrote: Glad your calling. Im sure they will want the harness back for testing. The other poster might of been talking about the older style harness where you do like the following But the newer harnesses have the speed buckles (like yours) which feeding them back though is consider double backing as well.
That system, which I have seen in older harness, seems to work much better. This is just an assumption, but it seems like the "double back" feature where the straps contact each other would create more friction and tension (by compression against each other when taught). In this new system, the straps are being compress by two metal buckles...I also realized when comparing the two harnesses (given that my Adjama is older, dirtier, and has been put more to use), the Black Diamond straps seem a lot stiffer and glossier/smoother. Usually, a strap that is stiffer and smoother can glide through metal objects easier...
Ty Harlacker · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 231

Well, this is enough for me to not climb on their harnesses. I am not going to climb with anyone who has one either. They obviously aren't testing them.

Jan Tarculas · · Riverside, Ca · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 917

This is me comparing the my Petzl Adjama and Black Diamond Harness together...

With the pictures I provided, you can see were the buckles on the Black diamond have more "play" so they can easily move around more compared to the Petzl. The Petzl buckels are also curved in an angle so when the smaller gray buckle lays on top of the bigger black one, it seems to "fit" better, possibly slide less and can compress the strap when it is taught compared to the BD harness. The Black diamond buckles look to be more flat shape. To me, a flat piece of metal on top of another flat piece of metal can easily slide(and in this case, slide open for the strap to go through).

Ty Harlacker · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 231

Does it have a UIAA approval?

Toby Butterfield · · Portland, OR · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 140

I have the momentum as well, Chris, and have noticed the same thing. Perhaps an inch or two of slack will pull through the leg loops throughout the course of a day, meaning I have to constantly recheck and readjust them.

Reading this, maybe I'll just buy a new harness.

cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355
RNclimber wrote:Usually, a strap that is stiffer and smoother can glide through metal objects easier...
RNclimber wrote: To me, a flat piece of metal on top of another flat piece of metal can easily slide(and in this case, slide open for the strap to go through).
Conjecture in a forum isn't going to solve anything. As an owner of an Aspect harness (who actually took several falls in one yesterday), I'd appreciate it if we could have some more useful information.

RNclimber wrote:To verify what happened, I put my harness back on the way it was, and sure enough, I tugged on the belay loop and the waist strap came sliding a few inches.
It sounds like this is a repeatable issue. Therefore,

bwalt822 wrote:Is it possible to recreate the failure in a video?
... this seems like the next logical step. Please show us what happened.

sunder wrote: I would call back and hopefully you get someone else, if not insisnst on talking to a manager or a supervisor.
I'll second that as well.

Chris
Ty Harlacker · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 231

To any of you considering a new harness look into the new Arc' Teryxs' I have had mine since it debuted and I haven't looked back. By far the lightest, most comfortable harness I have used. I will post a link with a gear-review before Wed.

Jan Tarculas · · Riverside, Ca · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 917

To all readers...

I am NOT a representative from any climbing/sports/retail company or any of the sort, NOT against Black Diamond or associated companies with them or what have you. But I AM an avid climber, a respectful, and loyal customer if anything. I did not post here to HATE on Black Diamond, the harness that failed, and the person that I spoke with. I do know manufacturer defects do occur, reason why they have recalls. People are NOT perfect. But when customers complain about something, especially when people's lives are on the line, I expect a better response than what was given to me. I am going to contact them again via email, and not to just the warranty department (who the person I spoke with represented), but to all the other emails they have on their and to also have some thing in writing. I will probably just email this link as well so I don't have to tell my story over and over again, which I have done plenty of times with other complaints to various companies.

Ty Harlacker · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 231

It will be posted in the Gear-Review forum.

David Appelhans · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 410
Toby B wrote:I have the momentum as well, Chris, and have noticed the same thing. Perhaps an inch or two of slack will pull through the leg loops throughout the course of a day, meaning I have to constantly recheck and readjust them. Reading this, maybe I'll just buy a new harness.
I also have the same problem with my Momentum. Even though the legs buckles are the traditional double back kind, I find I have to tighten them up each day before climbing. I thought maybe it was the clothes that I was wearing when I adjusted the harness previously, but now I realize the legs have been creeping bigger. That is terrible!
bwalt822 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 0

I think we should keep the comments about the momentum harness' leg loop loosening in another thread.

Angela Mabe · · Flagstaff,AZ · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 185

RNclimber: i am really glad that you are safe and nothing more happened. Also thank you for letting us all know that it is a bigger issue than just the leg loops loosening all the time and being aggravating but that in fact a bigger issue could happen. we will be calling BD as well to discuss with them.

Jan Tarculas · · Riverside, Ca · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 917

I know this is a forum and we can post whatever we want (me assuming this and that). I will refrain from more assumptions, comparing my two harnesses and only state facts to keep things more organize. I understand this is a serious issue so anyone posting similar assumptions, not buying this ___ and buying that instead, I ask that they stop so we can continue to serious questions and facts.

Thanks :)

Ty Harlacker · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 231

Does it have a UIAA approval on it?

Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245
Angela Dembik wrote:holy smokes! i'm glad i'm not the only one with this problem! i have the womens version of this and i am constantly tightening my leg loops. they never stay in place and always get loose. i tried climbing tape to have them not slip but that didn't work either. it drives me nuts when i'm climbing and have to pull them tighter all the time. i just got this harness in the spring but i'm thinking of going back to my trusty misty mountain cadillac now. i'm not new to climbing and darren and i are safety freaks. so yes mine are always double backed. whats the contact at black diamond cause i will call too and let them know. they can come and even watch me belay and climb and watch them get loose all day long.
I don't mean to go off topic or bash you, but I can't imagine why anyone would continue to climb with a harness that is obviously malfunctioning. You need to retire the harness immediately, contact BD, and re-evaluate what you know and what you think you know about climbing. Your leg loops and waist belt SHOULD NOT MOVE once you've doubled them back. NOT EVEN A MILLIMETER!

If I am wrong then someone should correct me, but I have climbed in all types of harnesses including BD Momentum and I've NEVER had a problem with leg loops or swami belts loosening. I would consider this to be a major defect in the harness and I think the comments about them loosening are completely appropriate in this thread. THAT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN!

To the OP, thanks for posting this and contacting BD but I think you should continue to call them until you get someone who understands the severity of the problem. All of your pictures look correct to me so it seems that you understand how the harness is supposed to work.

I hope they figure this out before someone gets hurt or worse.
Yarp · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 0

Easy with the shouting there dude. Nobody died so settle down. Hard for me to believe that you've never had a single harness that had webbing that would creep through the legloops. The waistbelt creeping at all is a little sketch though.

Anyway...I quit buying anything made by Black Diamond. It's obvious the company is going to shit. Products and service have done nothing but go downhill in the last few years. Their bottom line has soared though. Gee...I wonder if it has anything to do with everything being outsourced to china?

Building cheap junk in a sweat shop in Asia and selling it to stupid Americans at ridiculous prices while at the same time decreasing or nearly eliminating anything resembling quality customer service is nothing new. They are the new Walmart of climbing gear. Didn't you get the memo?

Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245

Sorry for the yelling, but no, I've never climbed with a harness that had webbing creep through the buckles. Furthermore, I've guided for three different companies and managed my own shop for three years. In my time off I've roadtripped. I've seen and handled dozens of harnesses over the last 4 or 5 years and have never seen one come loose while a person was wearing it.

I don't like the two buckle system and have never owned a harness with that system, but many of our harnesses do have the two buckles and I constantly check our clients throughout the day as they are mostly inexperienced beginners.

So yea, like I said, I would consider it to be a malfunction.

And I have been staying away from BD lately because of the reasons Yarp listed. The way they handle this issue will determine how I view the company for a long time.

Angela Mabe · · Flagstaff,AZ · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 185

well excuse me for being naive on leg loops. it is NOT my waist belt that slips it is only my leg loops and never more than an inch at a time. i've only ever climbed in misty mountain harnesses and this was my first BD harness, my thoughts on this was that it was annoying that they would not stay in place but it would have to come loose about 5 or 6 inches for it to come completely undone. i suppose that i should of been a little more concerned than i was. and it never crossed my mind that they would actually come un-done all the way...until now

Also i bought the guys version first and the same thing happened so silly me thought that the BD harnesses were just built that way (leg loops)

But yes i will go back to my old harness until BD gets back to me.

mike h · · Front Range, CO · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 24

I just purchased a BD Aspect ~2 weeks ago from REI here in Denver. I see a difference between my buckles and yours - don't have a camera but it'd be great if others would check their own.

It looks like the top/smaller piece on your buckle is flat, and is shorter than the bottom piece. It also looks to me like the sewn end, while pulling on the buckle, could pull on the top piece and open or loosen the buckle.

On my buckle, both pieces' openings are approximately the same length, but the top/smaller one is bent in a way on the sewn side such that it always sits back, and will never be pulled on by the sewn loop. It is also impossible, without this bent end hanging off one side, to have the two pieces sit flat against each other. That was the first difference I saw.

I'd be surprised if the difference was due to outsourcing, sounds like mine is newer than yours. Thoughts?

Edit to add: Checked the tag, mine is made in Phillipines 2011. Is this a difference between the two models?

Angela Mabe · · Flagstaff,AZ · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 185

Darren and I will make a video tonight and show where the leg loop buckles plays in. That. You can all see what happens

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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