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Keith H. North · · Englewood, CO · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 90

Not everyone uses the Tick list feature on mountain project. It's a rating is it really that big of a deal?

Phil Lauffen · · Innsbruck, AT · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 3,098

In other news some toolbag has been recording tr solos at the quarry wall!!

What a flagrant abuse of mountain project ticklisting!

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492

Are routes graded for how hard they are when you first get on them? Or how hard they are after you've unlocked the sequence and bagged the redpoint?

Guy H. · · Fort Collins CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 8,318
Phil Lauffen wrote:In other news some toolbag has been recording tr solos at the quarry wall!! What a flagrant abuse of mountain project ticklisting!
A toolbag indeed... this is indeed a flagrant abuse. You should know better. :)
J. Albers · · Colorado · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 1,926
Gunkiemike wrote:Are routes graded for how hard they are when you first get on them? Or how hard they are after you've unlocked the sequence and bagged the redpoint?
It depends on the area and the locals preference. There are definitely crags around where the grades are given in the context of 'perfect beta'....the Jailhouse in Sonora is one such crag in my locale. Some crags and routes just lend themselves to more beta tweaking than others. That said, the more you get used to climbing at a particular crag, the better you will get at reading that particular type of rock and your ability to quickly read and execute subtle beta will become better.

It just so happens that most climbing areas have enough in common with respect to overall movement and feel, that it easier to compare their grades with or without the "secret" beta. For these types of routes (i.e. easily readable for someone who has logged a lot of mileage), the movement of the onsight versus the movement on the 10th redpoint burn will feel similar enough that the onsight and redpoint grade will also feel pretty similar....just perhaps a bit more dialed on the 10th go. However, every once in a while, you will run across a crag that has a particular style that is so different or so beta intensive, that without spending a lot of time on that type of rock or having a local spell out the beta for you, the routes may seem overly sandbagged.

I usually think that is best to just log a lot of hours on different types of rock and in different regions. Doing so will enable you to figure what you're good at and what you are not so good at. For example, you may end up learning that limestone pocket pulling is rough for you, but maybe blocky rhyolite goes well for you. The result being, that you will recognize that even though you can cruise 11a on rhyolite, the 11a on limestone that hammers you is still the same grade. In my experience, most crags around the country have essentially similar grade structures as long as you have logged enough hours to know what say, an 'enduro 12a' should feel like versus a short 'power 12a' versus a '12a' with 35 knee scums on it.
Jeremy Monahan · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined May 2002 · Points: 410
Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,241
essay wrote: Perhaps you should stop taking so much pride in your incessant punting, pull yourself together, and learn how to become more proficient at this climbing thing you like enough to post about every day. It's a lot more fun.
Yeah, because you for sure sound like you're having a blast.

I'll be in Flag soon, slice! I'm guessing you'll be one of the local crag roaches with his shirt off, barb wire tattoo flexing, busy rolling his eyes at the base of The Joker. Impressive.

By the way, if you're not British, using the terms "punting" or "punter" makes you sound like a complete prat. If you are British, you're probably just a ponce anyway.
Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,241
essay wrote: No, seriously Zeke, you sound kinda pissed off and I think this attitude adjustment I am perscribing would make you a happier person. I am telling you this because I too once Chuffedf/punted/thrashed up 5.9 with the best of them, everyone did. There is nothing wrong with this, but man, how limited is your experience? The funny thing here is that you are so proud of your very limited experice you extoll it as a virtue. I think the real reason why you are so pissed at these elitist "smart sniffers" is that your are really just jealous of them. I can see you now pulling up to the crag with your gumby posse and being a complete shit show on your sick 5.9 project, so of course the other climbers who take this a activity a little more seriously and who fear your chuffing ways might wear off on them, their girlfriends, and their children, don't want to have anything to do with you. You see the other climbers as being "elitist" because you have nothing in common with them and thus, you have nothing to talk about. If you realized that humility is the key to improving, and actually actually begin working on becoming a better climber, I believe you will find you have much more in common with these fart sniffers than you though, you certinly have the ego to be a hard climber. Through doing this you may find that they are not all that elitist, you will have more fun at the crag, and you will be a happier person. Cheers from the poff!
Well, I do get pretty mad when they use stick clips all the time. I'd like to see what those so-called "elites" could really climb if they didn't use them. I'd bet you guys could only get up a 5.9 like me if you didn't cheat like that. Discrete tension, strategic rests, training, technique.... I'm sorry, Essay, it still sounds like a bunch of self-indulgent fart-sniffing to me.
ralphy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 30

Shoes- $155.00
Harness- $100.00
Rope- $200.00
Draws- $200.00
Chalk Bag- $10.00
Chalk - $1.00

Rating something you havn't sent yet- classic.

ANOTHER DELETED · · msprague beats old ladies up · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 10

this should clear everything up.

xtranormal.com/watch/7164911/

ANOTHER DELETED · · msprague beats old ladies up · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 10

Mr Perkins, please view this important PSA

www.xtranormal.com/watch/7164911/

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,705
essay wrote:And no, you cannot rate something you havn't actually done. You can say that it feels stiff for the suggested grade etc, but you simply don't know your ass from a hole in the ground if you think you can rate a climb after dogging it or giving it the old TR burn. I know that is going to upset the hordes of punters on this forum, but so be it, the vato has spoken.
Wow, that's pretty authoritative.
Now what about multi-pitch trad. There was a pitch of The Steck Salathe I didn't lead, I followed my partner on that one pitch. Since I didn't lead it, am I entitled to an opinion regardling the climb? What about Royal Arches to Crest Jewel, I think out of the 20+ pitches there were 3 I didn't lead. Can I sir, implore you to allow me to have an opinion? What about other climbs, whereas most people swing leads and only lead 1/2 of the pitches? May they then have an opinion?

Clean, TR, whatever, I know a 10 when I climb it. If I had AIDED it, I'd might be induced to share your black and white world.

And how to TR-only climbs and head-points or climbs with pre-placed gear get grades anyway? Since nobody has sent them?!?!?
Tom Rangitsch · · Lander, Wy · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,699

Guess I missed the vitriol in George Perkins statement. I thought he sounded rather reasonable. Grades are an opinion, aren't they? I think someone who has climbed enough knows what certain grades feel like even if they don't send them. Heck, I know some people who are crappy at grading routes that they have sent There is no magic light above your head that that goes off once you have sent something.

I can understand if someone has limited experience, flails on a route, and proceeds to downgrade it and make excuses for why they didn't flash, then that is b.s. But someone who has been in the game for awhile can have an opinion after they check a route out and is probably pretty accurate in their guess.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

i still say its not good to "rate" stuff you havent sent ... theres things out there i can TR or second, which i cant lead for whatever reason ...

leading is a different game than just "working out the moves" or other such

otherwise wed all be top rope tough guys

just my opinion ... i do however hear a lot of "hey it aint that hard i can do all the moves on top rope" ... "hey i followed someone up the , i can do it easily myself" ... "hey that runnout slab is easy, i can second it no problem" ... "im a 5.11 climber cause i did it on TR"

etc ....

Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,241
essay wrote: Wow, I was not expecting that. You have my vote for the funniest joke I have read all year at this site, and that in itself is an accomplishment. I really do hope we meet someday, perhaps I can warm up on your sick 5.9 proj while wearing tennis shoes and a bowling ball strapped to my ass just so you can understand how silly your comments are. Out of curosity, do you live on a compound with no contact with the outside world? But seriously dude, getting mad at someone using an inadament object is a reflection of you and not the people using the object. The rules in climbing are all one big and funny joke. Perhaps you should try bouldering instead, there might be less for you to get so angry about. Think about it.
If there's one thing that angers me more than stick clips, it's got to be elitist fart sniffers like you strapping bowling balls to their ass. You're just trying to get me chuffed, aren't you?

We don't have any bouldering pads at the compound, so I have to stick to the routes for right now. Maybe when I'm sponsored I'll be able to afford one though. You're right though, boulderers seem way cooler. I think it's the weed!!!!1
slk · · Reno, NV · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 130
Zeke, I give your post 2.5 stars

I just ticked this comment. I found it light even for a warmup.
.

heh-heh, funny stuff
Toby Butterfield · · Portland, OR · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 140

I love you Zeke.

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,705
NippIeit wrote: This is great. (...)
Are you seriously going to hump my leg again?
Shooo... be gone.
M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090

What bothers me a little, since it makes the stars useless, is when people give out 3 and 4 stars for completely mediocre or worse routes. I realize the stars are subjective, but 4 stars should be reserved for the real classics and 3 for excellent routes that don't quite reach that quality. Two stars should be a good route and probably what most routes should get. Even 1 star might be all right. Maybe we need an actual "no star" option to give more options for the not so good ones.

We are all climbers, so we get excited about any rock, but there is still a huge difference between say Astroman and some mediocre scrap heap.

GMBurns · · The Fucking Moon, man, the… · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 470
M Sprague wrote:What bothers me a little, since it makes the stars useless, is when people give out 3 and 4 stars for completely mediocre or worse routes. I realize the stars are subjective, but 4 stars should be reserved for the real classics and 3 for excellent routes that don't quite reach that quality. Two stars should be a good route and probably what most routes should get. Even 1 star might be all right. Maybe we need an actual "no star" option to give more options for the not so good ones. We are all climbers, so we get excited about any rock, but there is still a huge difference between say Astroman and some mediocre scrap heap.
having done Mediocre Scrap Heap (5.10+ PG A2 IV ****) I can honestly tell you that it's no four-star route. Three and a half maybe, but four? getoutaheah
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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