Could climbing gear be cheaper?

Hey all,

My friend and I have been a little frustrated by how expensive climbing gear is at retail stores. They typically charge a 100% mark up on the gear they buy from manufacturers. Many online stores sell at the same price, or offer old products that nobody wants.

So we've been wondering if it wouldn't be possible to set up a way for customers to interact more directly with manufacturers. If we could accomplish this on a simple website, maybe we could reduce the price of new gear in general. And if climbing gear were cheaper, maybe people would replace sketchy old gear more often...

Basically, we're considering creating a members-only site where manufacturers could sell their gear for cheap, without having those prices show up in the general marketplace. What do you guys think? Could something like that work?

Also, we also created a simple survey to learn more about where people currently purchase gear. You can find it here
The survey only has 9 questions, which take an average of 3 minutes to complete.

If you're psyched, we'd love to get your opinions.

-Keller Rinaudo and Will Hetzler

woohoo some trendy marketing company now focusing on the dirtbag population now eh?

I'll keep my free market. Bring down prices through innovation.

Climbing Gear isn't any more expensive (if not less so) than many other "adventure" sports.

Look at skiing/boarding, Mtn Biking, Kayaking, Road Biking etc etc. All those sports are probably $1k entry level. Maybe less but doubtful.

Kitting yourself out for climbing sport routes:

60m Rope - $130 (Beal)
12 GOOD Draws - $132 (Hotwire/Positron)
Harness - $38 (Mammut)
ATC XP - $16
Belay Locker - $10 (WC)
Chalk Bag - $12
Extra Biners - $25
Shoes - $88 (Five Ten Copperheads)

Total - $451

That took me all of 5 minutes online searching. Many things were 30% off. If you spent a little more time you could do even better.

That's damn close to a pro deal (Most Climbing Hard Goods Pro Deals are 40% off MSRP MAX) while also still supporting retailers who have well stocked climbing depts.

The only way you're gonna offer better deals is to get direct from manufacturer distribution. A manufacturer selling at wholesale (typically what a pro deal would be) would still make the same. But that's NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. Why? Because they would be committing retail suicide. They would be undercutting EVERY retailer out there and killing their LARGEST source of sales. No way established companies would do that. Notice how many now sell direct from their site (BD for example) but they keep prices in check with the rest of the retail world? That keeps their retailers happy and if you order direct from BD - cha ching! They just made BOTH their wholesale AND retail markups off of you. Thanks!

Frankly, $450 (or less if you buy less gear, shop around etc etc) is CHEAP in the grand scheme of things. That's the price of admission. You don't like it. Tough. Save your money (like everyone else).

There are enough "dirt bag" mountain bikers out there with $4K+ kits to tell me that they found a way to save and pay. (and pay for a lift ticket at whistler to boot).

Why can't you?

gearforall wrote:i . we hope that this will allow more people to start climbing

why do you want to do that. It is too frigging crowded out there as it is.

Hey guys,

Just thought that I would add my two cents. I'm one of the "two college grads" that decided to start this discussion. I've been an avid climber for 6 years, and have played an active role in the community that entire time. I built the Harvard Bouldering Wall when I was a freshman there, and actually just got back from a trip to China (video: Keller talks about China Climb )

Over the last couple months, I've spoken with several gear manufacturers. REI actually charges a 100%+ markup on climbing gear and is still demanding lower prices from manufacturers whose margins are already squeezed. Is this the best solution for climbers?

I completely understand if you think that we're crazy, Matt. And you bring up great points about retail repercussions. We think we have a pretty elegant solution to get around that problem.

Long story short, over 200 people have now taken the survey, and signed up for a beta invitation to a site that would offer uniformly low prices and free shipping on high quality climbing gear (not the dregs that other retailers haven't been able to sell). It seems as though people like the idea.

It's cool to hear everyone's opinions.

Psyched,
Keller Rinaudo

Who buys gear at REI? 100% is a typical markup in any industry. Retail sucks, even with wholesale being 50% of MSRP.

The current pricing scheme works - those who want the coolest gear now pay for it, those who want to dirtbag make do with last years colors and models.

Right now you can get anything for 15-20% off retail any day. With a little searching I pay more like 60-70% of retail on average. $125 for a $200 rope was my last purchase.

Keller Rinaudo wrote: REI actually charges a 100%+ markup on climbing gear and is still demanding lower prices from manufacturers whose margins are already squeezed.

this is the difference between wholesale and MSRP in just about every industry, and it also happens at just about every stage of manufacturing. There are lots of reasons for this, some good, some bad, but as others have pointed out, you're basically asking an entire industry to abandon its sales and pricing structure.

also, I hope you've taken a look at (for example) BD's pro-deal policy. they are very careful about not undercutting their retailers... why? because selling gear to a bunch of climbers at pro-deal rates ends up cutting into BD's bottom line, not just putting the retail shops out of business.

It sounds like you're hinting at some kind of climbing-Amazon... an online-only retailer selling gear at closer-to-wholesale prices because your overhead is lower. It might work, but you may also find that you're only able to offer deals at ~30% off of retail, which as others have noted, is already available for most every item if you're willing to look around.

there are some examples of this model out there: e-OMC.com recently went to an (almost) all-online format and they routinely have some of the lowest retail prices on climbing gear.

A true climbing dirtbag only has the gear that is absolutely essential;then they find partners with lots of gear who don't climb as well...Ropeguns don't have time for high dollar jobs.

BTW...why,exactly,do we need more climbers?

So you are telling me that instead of spending my money at the local climbing shop that is an active participant in local development, knows the beta on just about everything in the area, throws parties once a quarter, and hires cute girls to sell me gear I should sign up and send my dollars to you so that I can save 40%? Can I break guideline #1 for this thread?

I can buy most climbing gear on pro deal and I still shop at the local shop the majority of the time. They earn that mark-up through community interaction and a commitment to fantastic service. Something I've never gotten from REI or some internet site.. Plus, I get to flirt with cute, non-LDS girls (a rarity in St. George, UT) whenever I go in to buy chalk or draws or tape, etc.

I understand being a cheap dirt-bag, but recognize the folks who allow you to climb and give them their due.

And they're off!!!

Wow, you guys are crafty. Changing the title of you post and all.

I've run across a few of these sites already. Theclymb.com comes to mind, although it's not strictly climbing gear. I've seen great deals on that site, but I have to agree that I can still find great deals on last years models, etc. at my local shop. Maybe not quite that low, but I feel a lot better about supporting my local shop so that I don't have to wait 5 business days to get some tape or chalk when they go out of business.

Greg D wrote:Wow, you guys are crafty. Changing the title of you post and all.

HAHAHAHA

At least its an honest inquiry now and not a misleading post that skews the truth in true American tradition.

If you think you can offer climbing gear cheaper, just do it. Never mind all the secret squirrel passwords, decoder rings, and the like. If your business model works, you'll be a success and climbers will get the gear cheaper. If not, the free market will sort you out.

If you really want to take margin out of the middle, start a manufacturing company and sell directly to climbers, e.g. Fish Products (www.fishproducts.com/)and Wired Bliss ( wiredblissusa.com/)