Colorado Thief caught in the act at Smith

Chopping bolts is perfectly acceptable as long as you do it on lead.

Regardless of what you consider this act, you might wanna check and make sure that calling the guy a thief doesn't incur some liability regarding public, libelous accusations defaming his character, considering this is not a clear-cut case of larceny (as opposed to removing abandoned property), let alone any actual conviction of alleged crime. If the guy is a big enough butthole, which looks to be the case, he may be able to pursue some sort of action against the poster of the video, or maybe even others here advocating or conspiring violence, regardless of who is actually in the right.

I now have a negative opinion of the guy, and I'll never know him.

Some one stole some gear from a mixed cave in ouray. a few draws and most importantly a fixed line to get up some sandy slabs to the cave were gone. what ensued was a terrifying sandy, chossy, slab solo. you steel stuff, you could cause a dangerous situation. as soon as you can send M11, 5.14, or 5.9 for that matter hanging your own draws you might have a point. climbing hard takes more than brawn, it takes a commitment to climbing and an investment in time and energy in the climbing community so their opinion does carry more weight than most of ours. sorry.

I have been places where to stop people from stealing draws they put up chain draws or weird rubberized cable draws. The result is something even uglier than a few hanging draws. get over it and enjoy taking some whippers on commitment free routes that you might not get to try other wise. before you know it you will be that 5.14 climbing spray lord.

my stuff is always hanging

jeff walker wrote:interesting the number of people on this thread who think its okay for this fuzzy-faced fuckhead to steal shit just because it aint nailed down. seems like the old blame the victim thing: if you don't want your draws stolen then don't leave them hanging around on some route. right. the guy who steals shit isn't responsible but the guy who has his shit stolen is an idiot who should be more careful. load of bullshit, plain and simple. the guy is a thief and a weasel to boot. defending this dude's behavior makes you a weasel, too. it isn't complicated.

++1

It is also interesting how many people have no problem with route setters leaving there bolts and hangers on the rock. According to the logic of those that do not believe in working a route or having draws pre-hung route setters should just remove there bolts and hangers from the rock so they don’t get stolen. I think it’s ironic how some people think draws should not be left on routes but it’s perfectly fine to leave bolts, hangers, and chain anchors.

danny m wrote: ++1 It is also interesting how many people have no problem with route setters leaving there bolts and hangers on the rock. According to the logic of those that do not believe in working a route or having draws pre-hung route setters should just remove there bolts and hangers from the rock so they don’t get stolen. I think it’s ironic how some people think draws should not be left on routes but it’s perfectly fine to leave bolts, hangers, and chain anchors.

word, nuff said.

Brian Abram wrote:Regardless of what you consider this act, you might wanna check and make sure that calling the guy a thief doesn't incur some liability regarding public, libelous accusations defaming his character, considering this is not a clear-cut case of larceny (as opposed to removing abandoned property), let alone any actual conviction of alleged crime.

If it's true it isn't libel. Period.

First of all I think it is great entertainment to read all of the crap on this thread. This situation could have been easily taken care of by "God" (the 5.14 climber) explaining what the other climber (the hippie) was doing wrong. I get tired of seeing better climbers thinking they have a right to do anything they want at a crag. I personally think it is funny that the hippie went to such extreme measures to clean up our trashed environment and would like to thank him if I ever get a chance. If the hippie is reading this, I would invite him to send me his e-mail, so that I can donate equipment (aid gear, ropes, etc) to the cause.
The hippie was not stealing, he was just doing his part. Smith Rock is beautiful place where a lot of people come to hike and take in the scenery (it is not owned by climbers last time I checked). As climbers, we think that our activity is more important than anybody's nature experience which I do not think is right. Climbers need to get of their high horses and think about others (especially the 5.13/14 gods of the earth). I see a lot of people using these climbing areas and very few doing anything to keep them clean. We need more hippies in the climbing community to keep things in check.
I would like to end this by saying thank you to the hippie for all of his hard work. I would also like to invite "god" to post when he can red point the route in good, true form.

Tyson Anderson wrote: If it's true it isn't libel. Period.

Well that's kinda what I'm saying. It might not be true that theft technically occurred or was attempted, regardless of what your personal definition of theft might be.

Kevin J OBrien wrote:First of all I think it is great entertainment to read all of the crap on this thread. This situation could have been easily taken care of by "God" (the 5.14 climber) explaining what the other climber (the hippie) was doing wrong. I get tired of seeing better climbers thinking they have a right to do anything they want at a crag. I personally think it is funny that the hippie went to such extreme measures to clean up our trashed environment and would like to thank him if I ever get a chance. If the hippie is reading this, I would invite him to send me his e-mail, so that I can donate equipment (aid gear, ropes, etc) to the cause. The hippie was not stealing, he was just doing his part. Smith Rock is beautiful place where a lot of people come to hike and take in the scenery (it is not owned by climbers last time I checked). As climbers, we think that our activity is more important than anybody's nature experience which I do not think is right. Climbers need to get of their high horses and think about others (especially the 5.13/14 gods of the earth). I see a lot of people using these climbing areas and very few doing anything to keep them clean. We need more hippies in the climbing community to keep things in check. I would like to end this by saying thank you to the hippie for all of his hard work. I would also like to invite "god" to post when he can red point the route in good, true form.

Apostasy!

Kevin J OBrien wrote:First of all I think it is great entertainment to read all of the crap on this thread. This situation could have been easily taken care of by "God" (the 5.14 climber) explaining what the other climber (the hippie) was doing wrong. I get tired of seeing better climbers thinking they have a right to do anything they want at a crag. I personally think it is funny that the hippie went to such extreme measures to clean up our trashed environment and would like to thank him if I ever get a chance. If the hippie is reading this, I would invite him to send me his e-mail, so that I can donate equipment (aid gear, ropes, etc) to the cause. The hippie was not stealing, he was just doing his part. Smith Rock is beautiful place where a lot of people come to hike and take in the scenery (it is not owned by climbers last time I checked). As climbers, we think that our activity is more important than anybody's nature experience which I do not think is right. Climbers need to get of their high horses and think about others (especially the 5.13/14 gods of the earth). I see a lot of people using these climbing areas and very few doing anything to keep them clean. We need more hippies in the climbing community to keep things in check. I would like to end this by saying thank you to the hippie for all of his hard work. I would also like to invite "god" to post when he can red point the route in good, true form.

I don't think you even watched the video.

Ignorance is bliss.

This man is a thief (although maybe not legally).

Taking draws off a route that you free climb(NOT AIDED!!) is generally fine by me. This motherf****r came to Smith for the FIRST time and thinks it's okay to take draws off a route he AIDED as well as swing back and forth to take them off a route he DIDN'T EVEN CLIMB. Almost any sport climber knows that draws are often left on hard routes via Sharma, Graham, Ojeda, etc. Many of the climbs that I aspire to do (in the very far future) have random draws that are left b/c they are hard clips. I always, as I'm sure many do, ask around to see why certain things are the way they are. Taking draws in this particular case is like taking steel carabiners off a set of chains at the top of a climb.

Trad gear is another story. Bail gear should be taken down if you encounter it, but you should also make it known you found bail gear (via MP, Supertopo, RC, word of mouth, etc) so the person has a chance of recovering it. I will admit that I have kept gear that I never did that with, but in my defense it was a slung hex nut (from a hardware store, not a climbing store) and an old Chouinard nut. I also pull and recycle old pitons if I can pull them out.

just my 2 cents.

Y'all did a great job handling the situation and it's great you got a pic/vid out to the community so this guy can be monitered by others as to keep our community as morally straight as possible.

Everybody that visits Smith Rock is not a climber!!!!! Try thinking of others experience for once!!!

So if I left draws on Bunny Face for three days would you take them? I think you would "god"!!!

Kevin J OBrien wrote:First of all I think it is great entertainment to read all of the crap on this thread. This situation could have been easily taken care of by "God" (the 5.14 climber) explaining what the other climber (the hippie) was doing wrong. I get tired of seeing better climbers thinking they have a right to do anything they want at a crag. I personally think it is funny that the hippie went to such extreme measures to clean up our trashed environment and would like to thank him if I ever get a chance. If the hippie is reading this, I would invite him to send me his e-mail, so that I can donate equipment (aid gear, ropes, etc) to the cause. The hippie was not stealing, he was just doing his part. Smith Rock is beautiful place where a lot of people come to hike and take in the scenery (it is not owned by climbers last time I checked). As climbers, we think that our activity is more important than anybody's nature experience which I do not think is right. Climbers need to get of their high horses and think about others (especially the 5.13/14 gods of the earth). I see a lot of people using these climbing areas and very few doing anything to keep them clean. We need more hippies in the climbing community to keep things in check. I would like to end this by saying thank you to the hippie for all of his hard work. I would also like to invite "god" to post when he can red point the route in good, true form.

when was the last time you saw a hiker in the cocaine gully? perhaps you should clean off your chalk as well?

il cop wrote:This guy is brilliant; an asshole, but brilliant... - He makes a good chunk of cash reselling free gear; he cannot suffer any legal ramifications; and as for his conscience...even the climbing community he steals from can't come to a consensus regarding the ethics pertaining to gear on routes. -I live in NYC, I climb in the Gunks, we don't leave gear, but we also don't have much fixed gear to leave it on. -Leaving draws on a route in absentia implies, to me, some sense of ownership over that line for the duration of the project....something I'm confident we're all against.

What about fixed pins, like on Fat City Direct? I don't see anybody complaining about clipping knifeblades left in cruxy sections.

AndrewHou wrote: What about fixed pins, like on Fat City Direct? I don't see anybody complaining about clipping knifeblades left in cruxy sections.

I complain about clipping jingus pins all the time. can't get enough of the solid ones though, love those things!

Personally I'd like to thank the bad ass climbers fixing draws for:
1. making it so i can try routes a bit over my head without risking leaving bail gear. I've only gotten stronger for it.
2. bolting and equiping new routes at the same old areas for all of us to enjoy.

Thanks for the hard work folks. one day i hope to chip in!

Kevin J OBrien wrote:Everybody that visits Smith Rock is not a climber!!!!! Try thinking of others experience for once!!!

If you climbed as hard as you use apostrophes, I don't think we'd be having this discussion. But please continue, the misguided support of your ginger-haired brethren is amusing.

phillip wrote:Second, a biner or two left on a highpoint of a route = booty. However, someone's draws hanging on a route = NOT YOURS!

Sounds to me like the highpoint was the draw on the last bolt. If I booty that one, then come back the next day can I assume that the second-highest draw is also on the highpoint and booty that, too?

How many non-climbers do you see on Mountain Project?