Rigging for Photography: Ascenders

Hello,

I was wondering if someone could give me a little idea of what kind of system I would need to use/how I would have to back up a system where I would be hanging from anchors for video/photography work. I'd have two anchors set so that I could ideally use a rope from each anchor to change the angle that I was shooting from. I was assuming some ascenders would be essential. What else?

Thanks!

First, you're life will be a lot easier with a static line. This is also safer, as you will eliminate the sawing action that can ccur when jugging on a dynamic rope.

I always use a gri gri and one ascender w/ a ladder. Some people like two ascenders but I feel more comfortable swinging around on a gri gri... it's not like you're doing a big wall. To make jugging easier, you can get a DMM revolver, clip it to your ascender, and clip the brake rope through it. This way you are pulling down on the brake rope instead of up. You can also use a biner with a plastic pully on it, or just a regular biner. The more friction, the more work you'll do. Sometimes I do this and sometimes I just pull up on the brake rope.

If you are switching between two ropes you'll need a bit more gear. I would build an anchor in a place that can be reached by both ropes. Then you can go in direct when you switch ropes, then either ascend or descend once you've switched over. Alternatively you could go from rope to rope w/o an anchor but you'll need an extra ascender and/or gri gri. Even then, you are probably going to have to go in direct to keep from swinging around when you are changing ropes. Two roeps doesn't sound like a great idea.

Even if you are using a static rope, it's a good idea to fix it to a few points on the way down so you are only jugging on sections at a time instead of the entire rope. You can also move the fixed points around and use them as directionals, eliminating the need for two ropes.

I guess I should be more specific. First of all, I'll be fixing ropes at two separate anchors, one rope each. These would be across a span. The first place I'll be doing this is at Devil's Lake, where there are walkoffs and easy to set top anchors. I'll be able to be level with, or above, below the climber if at all possible.

With your grigri/ascender setup, could you be more specific? Since I have no big wall experience, and none with ascenders, would I rig the ascender to the rope, connect to my harness with a cordalette, hook myself to the gri gri, put the rope through the gri gri, jug with the ascender/ladder, and pull the slack through the gri gri?

If thats correct, would doing this on a two-rope setup like I explained require double the gri gris?

Thanks Ryan, I appreciate the help. I see you post around often. Makes sense if you're an admin. Haha.

For photography and gym routesetting i always use a gri gri and a left-handed ascender.

The gri gri connects to your belay loop, and the ascender is not connected to the harness, but has either an aider (ladder) or an adjustable foot loop attached.

The motion is awkward if you've never done it, but once you get in the flow it's fairly efficient.

1. stand up in the foot loop, putting all your weight on the ascender.
2. With your right hand grab the brake strand and pull it through the gri gri.
3. Sit down.
4. Slide the ascender up
-repeat-

As you get better, steps 1, 2 and 3 become a single motion.

I use this system instead of 2 ascenders because it's easier to change direction. You simply sit down, pop the ascender open and rappel on the gri-gri.

I've never moved from rope to rope mid-wall, so i can't advise you there.

Thanks Justin. I just looked at this online to make sure what I was imagining was right. I'll practice it in the gym when I'm in after hours next time. I actually set, just never set routes as until recently, I didn't really care about them much.

I guess the only thing that remains is to see how this might differ if I were trying to do two ropes, one to different anchors, for instance, across a span, so I can get different vantage points and different angles. I'm assuming it would be the same, just two grigris and a lot of extra thinking.

This is a good picture of what Justin is talking about. I switch hands depending on what I'm doing so it really doesn't matter what hand ascender you have.

Just practice setting in up a few times and you'll figure it out. Also, if you are planning to hang on one or two ascenders w/o a gri gri, you must clip a biner in the top hole of both ascenders to keep the rope from coming out. I am on a gri gri in the pic so I don't have a biner clipped through the hole.

Now if I wanted to switch to the other rope in the picture w/o having a wall to go in direct to, this is what I would do.

1 - take ascender off of my rope and secure it on Rope #2.
2 - Weight ascender on Rope #2 by lowering on Rope #1... stay on Rope #1.
3 - Back yourself up on Rope #2 with a clove hitch (or 8) on a locker to your belay loop. You could also use a second ascender or a prusik.
4 - Unweight the Gri Gri, take it off of Rope #1 and secure to Rope #2.
5 - Now you're on Rope #2 with an ascender and a gri gri. Undo your back up and go.

Great. Thanks. And you would rather do that than have two grigris, and ascenders? The anchors in the situation that I'm thinking of would be about... 25 yards apart, so that I could create different angles that I could shoot from, by going up on one rope more than another, or both so that I would be above and behind the climber. This would be the next step, akin to what BigUp and the folks that do movies have to do when they shoot video like the 50 Words for Pump video.: I think I've decided that this would require two grigris and ascenders. Thanks for your help. Example: 50 Words for Pump

I think a guided rappel would be good for capturing some unique angles, I think you could even get creative with it and set a prusik on the guide line , clip the rap line to it and rap strait down in mid air.

I feel like this could be fun to play with.

mountainproject.com/v/color…

If I'm reading this right, it sounds like a good way to move closer/further from the climber by tensioning the second rope more or less.

The things I would consider very closely is both the directional loading of the anchor(s), and how the ropes move across rock close to the anchors, for the full range of possible movement.

If the rope comes over an edge, when you change the direction of loading by using the second rope to pull you to the side, the rope will rub against the edge. With the anticipated movement back and forth, you would want to use more edge protection than you normally would.

check this out.
youtube.com/watch?v=ZNgdN48…

@Rob, I've seen that video before quite and its pretty much what I'm thinking of, except for the fact that I'm more likely to not be doing things to quite the extremes. Lets work our way there.

@Wayne. I know about protecting the rope, but I appreciate the tip. I thin that I have a good basis for ideas. I'm going to make sure I work out the anchors and protecting the rope before I put it into practice, because I'm particularly concerned about the whole, lowering off two grigris with a system I'm not used to, but I'm going to give it a shot in the gym and see how it works out.

I would look to the vertical caving community for ascending/descending systems. A good chest harness is a must. A good place to start would be the book On Rope, Bruce Smith. He also has a store and resells PMI, Petzl,etc as well his own products( onrope1.com) to cavers and vertical rescue groups.

I've never needed a chest harness and it doesn't sound like the OP will need one either. BUT, I always wanted a two shoulder gear sling to hang my gear on. Do you get gear loops on a chest harness?

Ryan Williams wrote:I've never needed a chest harness and it doesn't sound like the OP will need one either. BUT, I always wanted a two shoulder gear sling to hang my gear on. Do you get gear loops on a chest harness?

No you don't. I'm kind of going between needing one and not needing one... I think the only positive for a chest harness is if you have some kind of lead above you or in front of you.. could be wrong. For reference, look at the following website about the new Adam Ondra film for an idea of what I'm looking at. And then scale it back to two ropes, because I'm not that good...

Thanks for your help everyone. This photography and filming idea that I'm planning is going to be a really awesome project when it gets off the ground, and I think it has potential. Filming rigging

With regard to chest harnesses, if getting into position is mostly rappelling into position and small tweaks upwards than I can see not wanting a chest harness. Similarly, if you are jugging up a less than vertical wall where your feet are touching the wall at all than two ascenders and aiders are the way to go.

However, if you ever find yourself looking at long overhanging ascents like this flickr.com/photos/masneyb/2… than a chest harness will keep you close tot he rope and you will not tire out your arms as much.

Seems like you could get by pretty easy with just 1 ascending rig (grigri/ascender) and then just clip into the second rope with a clove whenever you wanted to change the angle. All you need it for is to hold you out of plum from your 'ascending' rope to change angles right? Jug up (or rap down to if possible) to desired height, pull on other rope to get you to your off plum angle, clove/prussik/whatever into second rope to keep you there while you shoot. Don't think it would be quite as precise or easy to adjust as a pair of grigris, but you wont need two jugging rigs either;-).

Be sure you're always connected to the rope at two points while fooling around up there tho!

If you have the chance, I'd highly recommend building a bosun's chair or belay seat. Hanging in a harness really starts to suck after the first 15-20 minutes.

If you're shooting down a mostly vertical route (i.e., at the lake), a method to keep the rope hanging below you out of the shot can be really nice. I've been meaning to pick up a Metolius rope hook for exactly this reason, up until now, I've butterfly coiled the rope and clipped it short by wrapping a quickdraw around the coil and clipping both biners to my haul loop.

If you're not used to ascending a single line yet, I'd get used to that before trying complicate two rope setups.

Happy shooting!