How to coil rope "in slings" for rappels

I've seen it once, and dared not try it.
BUT does anyone know how to coil your rope and set it in slings on the sides of your harness so it'll take rope as you rappel-KEY-- without making a mess.?

Any pics?
sketches?

Butterfly coil each side of the rope and clip each coiled side to your left and right front gear loops, each with a doubled-over standard-length sling.

Usually feeds well, but watch on the way down so that if a coil loops around others while it's pulling out you can fix it before it gets out of hand.

The general idea is to stack the rope in butterfly coils that start big and end small. Pass a sling around the whole bunch and clip both ends of the sling into your belay loop(or one of your gear loops). Theoretically now as you descend the loops feed out and you don't have any tangles. The problem is that usually when you need to use this technique you are going to have winds that are going to mess things up.
I prefer to stack the rope if possible in a backpack and hang the pack from your harness.

Or you can just back your rappel up with a prusik, toss the rope over, rap, and untangle anything on the way down with your two free hands (being backed up). Am I crazy? When would it be vital to have all the rope with you feeding it out during a rappel?

JFK wrote:Or you can just back your rappel up with a prusik, toss the rope over, rap, and untangle anything on the way down with your two free hands (being backed up). Am I crazy? When would it be vital to have all the rope with you feeding it out during a rappel?

Really bad idea. Slow and cumbersome. Major tangles, possible snags. Much worse in high winds.

But, I do have a way that requires no slings and works 100% of the time in no winds and high winds. I do it on single pitch and multi pitch, no matter what the weather. That way it is second nature. And never fails.

As the above folks stated, butterfly coil on each side, hung via a doubled-up sling. To make the system run smoother, extend your belay device away from your harness... makes a big difference. Use one hand to brake, and the other to manage what is going on with the coils. And don't forget your autoblok in this setup.

As Kevin noted, the times when you use this technique is when it's blowing something fierce, so realize that the coils will clusterfuq themselves eventually. The main benefit of the saddlebag technique is to keep the ropes from streaming horizontal from you and getting snagged on some flake 100ft around the corner where it will be an uber-bitch to try to free them. Using a pack as a rope bag is a great solution as well, especially given that in these situations you are most likely already wearing everything that was in your pack to begin with - so it should have some room.

Practice at a local crag a couple times under perfect conditions, that's the best advice I can give.

JFK wrote: When would it be vital to have all the rope with you feeding it out during a rappel?

When your a ninja.

In high winds, I tie a fig 8 in the non-anchored end and clip it to my harness. that gives me a 100 foot loop. I then take and lower the remaining bight of line over the edge. If it is horrible winds sometimes its easier to half the rope again and clip it to the harness. In hurricane winds, it gets stacked in my pack and goes out from there.

JFK wrote:When would it be vital to have all the rope with you feeding it out during a rappel?

I use the "holster" method in three situations:

• High winds.
• To avoid throwing my rope onto leaders below when the descent for a popular route is to rappel the route.
• While cleaning loose stuff.

Perin Blanchard wrote: I use the "holster" method in three situations: *High winds. *To avoid throwing my rope onto leaders below when the descent for a popular route is to rappel the route. *While cleaning loose stuff.

For sure. Another method is to feed the rope through the anchor and lower your partner down. The partner can take the extra rope down with them or, at least, you'll only have about half the rope (the slack half after your partner is down at the next anchor) to holster with you as you rap down to her/him.
Indeed lowering your partner places extra wear on the anchor hardware so this may not be the most popular way to go but in super high winds or on heavily trafficked routes such as Crimson Chrysalis where you're rapping down on others. This is nice and friendly.

Here's a pic. My coils are a little too big, but this is the idea.

Greg D wrote:But, I do have a way that requires no slings and works 100% of the time in no winds and high winds. I do it on single pitch and multi pitch, no matter what the weather. That way it is second nature. And never fails.

C'mon Greg, don't hold out! What's the other method besides butterfly coils, stacking in a bag or lowering your partner so they can fix to the next anchor? Educate us please...

Cheers,
Clayton

1. While threading the rap anchor make a tight bundle about the size of a basketball (no bigger) making a circular coil (not butterfly cause they tend to cluster frig). I do 13 coils.
2. Make your 14 th coil into a bite (sp) and pass thru middle of bundle to make one side of "bunny ears". On other side of coil make another "bunny ear" with rope comming from first bunny ear and tie into overhand. Clip both ears from overhand to your harness. This makes a compact wind resistant bomb that will carry down very well even in modest winds. It will pop open at the last second. And voilà.

This is the foundation for the technique. It is very quick and simple once you have done it a few times. What you will do next will depend on the terrain and winds.

One example: hanging belay. Modest winds.
Make your first basketball sized bundle and clip to your harness. Continue pulling rope through anchor allowing it to descend down the rap line till you reach the middle mark. Your partner should be doing the same thing with the other side of the rope. Then clipping that bundle to you. Start to rappel. When you are running out of rope drop the bundles. Important: be sure to have 15 or 20 feet of slack to the bundle so that it can gain momentum as a bundle. This will help it to carry down the plumb line and will be necessary to pop the knot.

In high winds just make two bundles on each side of the middle mark.

Make sense?

Greg,

I think I get it but one question... the coils start from the end of the rope or from the mid-point side of the rope? I'm thinking the bight is near the end of the line (if the bight is near the mid-point then you'd have to release it early on to gekeep rapping)?

If it's not too much trouble, a picture is worth a thousand words. I'm a visual learner. If not, I can go play with it myself. Sounds like a good system that doesn't eat up extra gear and butterflys often get all jacked up in the wind.

Cheers!
Clayton

Yes the bundle gets made starting with the rope end. I will try to post pics tonight.

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Thanks man! That looks like a great trick. I will give it a try.

Cheers.
Clayton

I would never rappel off of a door hinge.

The proper term for this one is "the greg flail knot" and it was developed over a few summers of untangling messes while hanging from ropes in the wind and rain.

This is actually a great setup, as you can take the bundles with you and drop them individually, or you can throw the bundles which should undo themselves when they take their weight, giving you much more accuracy especially in the wind. This is how i usually rap when the rappel isn't straight forward or its windy.

I just wanted to say that I've been using this technique (the one illustrated by greg) this year and am totally sold on it.

It put an end to the rope getting stuck on a ledge 20 feet down, getting immediately tangled in manzanita bushes, and other clusters.

It worked the first time I tried it and is a great time saver.
I'm not sure that that coiling in slings has many advantages over this, except maybe rappeling through trees.

Thanks to those that figured this out.

flake over the extended sling that you are using to extend yr atc off ...

loops are easier to balance and less likely to fall off ... and if they get tangled at least its in front of you