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Belaying up second

Original Post
Choss Chasin' · · Torrance, CA · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 25

I'll keep it short. I dislike bringing up second using a redirect and a belay device off my harness, the short distance between me and top anchor makes pulling up rope slow. Is it safe to clip a gri-gri to the top anchor and belay directly through that (w/o the rope running through a carabiner) or are there other safer options?

Bapgar 1 · · Out of the Loop · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 90

Definitely used a Gri-Gri through the masterpoint on an anchor for the second. Also the Reverso and Guide are designed exactly for what you're talking about.

Eli Kramer · · Saratoga Springs, NY · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 40

Yes, that is exactly what a Gri-Gri is supposed to do, and it is my favorite tool for that task on most terrain. Two things: 1) before the climber starts pull test the device to make sure you set it up right (every time, takes literally 2 seconds) and 2) make sure that release handle isn't right on the rock, it needs room to catch. Happy climbing!

Choss Chasin' · · Torrance, CA · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 25

Sweet! Thanks for the info. I feel like a goon asking questions like this after I've been climbing for several years, however, in my defense it's been mostly bouldering (which I have tired of for many reasons).

dameeser · · denver · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 271

Make sure you know how to lower with Mr GriGri. Redirect the break strand with a 'biner in the anchor.

Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245

I hate climbing w/ a gri gri but when we were putting up new routes at the top of a tower last year I needed it anyways so I belayed off the anchor with it a few times. I noticed that on my brand new 9.8 it didn't engage very well... made me kind of nervous since you are solely relying on the gri gri to engage. I ended up switching mid-pitch.

W/ a autoblock you have more friction, even if for some reason the autoblock didn't block. If you are belaying off your harness and the gri gri doesn't engage, you're OK 'cuz you can just use it like an ATC. If you have it on the mp and it doesn't engage, your screwed.

I guess what I'm saying is test it out on thinner ropes before you tae it up on a route. It says right on the gri gri that you aren't sposed to use less than a 10mm.

Eli Kramer · · Saratoga Springs, NY · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 40

Yes, Ryan makes a good point. It takes a bit longer to catch on a thinner rope. The other side of this is a more dynamic belay. Make sure you really know how it works. Pull testing is really important. Know that it does take a hard jerk to engage. If you slowly pull rope through it will let you just fine. Also, don't treat it like a totally hands free device. Keep your break hand on the rope and if you need to go hands free tie a backup knot (overhand on a bight a few inches behind the device). Think of a Gri-Gri as an advanced tool, not something you'd use while reading "Climbing for Dummies."

Evan1984 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 30

A cinch is both smaller and capable of handling smaller diameter ropes. I have both a cinch and a gri and the cinch comes with me on anything except aid.

Bawls E. Climber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 35
Evan Horvath aka Evan1984 wrote:A cinch is both smaller and capable of handling smaller diameter ropes. I have both a cinch and a gri and the cinch comes with me on anything except aid.
+1
Robbie Mackley · · Tucson, AZ · Joined May 2010 · Points: 85

An ATC guide, reverso, or a number of other non-mechanical belay devices can be used in this same manner.

Thomas Willis · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 0

Why not use a Munter hitch on a locking biner at the top anchor? It is quick to tie one-handed on any size rope and saves you from having to use one extra link in the system and if the second has to be lowered it is much easier to lower on a Munter than with a Gri-Gri or autoblock. You obviously have to keep a hand on the brake strand with a Munter - but should also do so with the Gri-Gri or autoblock.

Bobby Hanson · · Spokane, WA · Joined Oct 2001 · Points: 1,230
Thomas Willis wrote:Why not use a Munter hitch on a locking biner at the top anchor?
It twists the rope too much for my taste. Good tool to know, though.
slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

one thing to keep in mind if using a grigri in this manner is to keep your brake hand on the rope. i watched a guy at red rocks belaying his second with the grigri on the master point. he took his brake hand off, and the weight of the rope down to the second started pulling the rope through the grigri, but wasn't accelerating fast enough to 'jerk' the cam and apply the brake. pretty soon the second started screaming at him because about 30 feet of slack had come down. not good....

Bill Olszewski · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 11,277

Before I got my gri gri, I would always belay off my harness with a redirect at the master point. I got into the habit of using my non-brake hand to pull the climber-side rope up towards the mp, rather than pull rope down from the mp to the atc. This eliminates the problem of the short throw between redirect and atc.

StefanJ · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 0

theres a way to make an autolocking munter by cliping a carabiner through some loop in the knot... it works pretty well, useful if you want to go light. i mean, you cant deny a $7 gri gri equivalent without the pounds, can you?

Phillip Tearse · · Denver, CO · Joined May 2008 · Points: 80

grigri/cinch at the top is also pretty key if you find yourself needing to haul your partner through a crux or whatnot. setting up a 3-1 is a breeze with the low friction device at the top (rather than the guide/reverso, still works just more...work)

Scott O · · Anchorage · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 70

Another advantage of using the grigri off the anchor is that if your second is weaker than you, it's very easy to rig a 3-1 and haul them through a short crux section that they can't pull.

Jason Antin · · Golden, CO · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,375
johnL wrote:I've never seen a munter twist a rope when used in this fashion. It's a mess when rappelling but not when belaying. This is probably because the rope isn't weighted much or at all, depending on your partners luck on the route. It's simpler, faster, and you can lower someone easily.
+1
Brian Snider · · NorCal · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 732

Why not just belay the second off your harness with no redirect? Then you never have to weight the gear, helpful if its sketchy. Just make sure you have a solid stance and your tied in tight.

Eli Helmuth · · Ciales, PR · Joined Aug 2001 · Points: 3,441

Re-directs double the force on the anchor and especially in the trad realm should be completely disregarded...all of these techniques, munter, gri-gri, cinch, atc-guide, etc. work great belaying off the anchor.

Eli Helmuth · · Ciales, PR · Joined Aug 2001 · Points: 3,441
Brian Snider wrote:Why not just belay the second off your harness with no redirect? Then you never have to weight the gear, helpful if its sketchy. Just make sure you have a solid stance and your tied in tight.
Don't place sketchy gear and you don't have to belay off the harness...actually, don't place sketchy gear ever if you can help it.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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