Mountain Project Logo

Strategy for backing up a Grigri while lead soloing?

Original Post
Shawn Mitchell · · Broomfield · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 250

I recently aid-soloed a pitch using an unmodified Grigri for a belay device. This was the first time I soloed with a mechanical belay; my prior efforts involved sliding a clove hitch on a locker.

Based on another climber's recommendation, I tied into a separate locker in increments of 6 to 10 feet. Boy did that feel slow and tedious, and add congestion to the already crowded cluster of metal and nylon at my waist.

What, if anything, do you do to back up a Grigri or other solo belay? Cycle knots and just get faster at it? Slide along another device or prussik? Something else? Is it necessary?

Thanks!

EDIT: And it felt like I had to hand-feed the rope; I had thought Grigris permit the rope to slip so you can just climb, but clipped to my waist it seemed to lock with every upward movement. Is that normal?

BenCooper · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Apr 2007 · Points: 585

For a backup, I tie knots as well. But I'll tie in every 20 feet or so, saving a lot of time. I realize that this decreases my margin of safety should the grigri fail, but the knot will hold, and seeing as it's being used as a 'fail-safe' type of backup, I'm okay with the increased fall distance. If the grigri fails I'll definitely injure myself. But, I won't die. And yes, a backup is necessary. There's a great post from Piton Pete about this from a while back. He had a good story in there about a friend who would've died without a backup.

As for the grigri locking up on you, I've had this problem as well. I haven't figured out a way to auto-feed without moving desperately slow. I usually just hand-feed the rope. Having said that, it's not all that bad, right? I mean, we could still be using clove-hitches, and that's tedious!

J. Thompson · · denver, co · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,425

Hi Shawn.

I can answer a few of your questions.

Yes the grigri will lock up if you don't hand feed it. At least until you get out far enough that the weight of the rope will self feed the grigri....which is a big problem in it's own right.

Back up knots should always be used....NOT a prussik. When I've used a grigri I typically tie a back up knot every 10-15ft...sometimes longer depending on what I was climbing. It's a hassle but something that should always be done. Timing it for free climbing can be a pain.
You'll need to think about "rebelaying" the rope to avoid the self feeding I mentioned earlier. This involves pulling the rope taunt from the anchor and tying off a piece mid pitch. There are a couple of schools of thought here. One is to just tie off a good piece, using a clove, butterfly, or 8 on a bight, this basically just makes the piece an extentsion of the anchor. The bad thing with this is you basically eliminate all of the added dynamic compents of the rope, as it relates to the length of rope you've built up.
There are other methods for dealing with the rebelay. Some folks will use a Klemhist. With the idea that it slides one way, thus allowing the rope to stretch, but will bear the weight the other way.
Some folks use a "weak link" to hold the weight....the idea being that it will break in the event of a fall. I've seen people use shoestrings and big rubber bands to accomplish this.

I'm personally not a fan of soloing with a Grigri.
For aid I tend to just use a Clove hitch.
For free climbing I use a Silent Partner....which I've used alot and absolutely love.

No solo system is without it's learning curve and no solo system is uncomplicated. Part of the deal is you have to be willing to deal with the hassle. But for some folks the reward is worth it.

Let me know if you want to discuss it more, I'd be happy to sit down with you sometime.

josh

Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669

great topic... i use the piss out of my gri for aid solo bolting work etc... let me gather my thoughts, and like Josh said we could get together and talk it out.

Shawn Mitchell wrote:congestion to the already crowded cluster of metal and nylon at my waist.
ha!
simplified cluster
ERolls · · Custer, SD · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 90

I'll use a short sling to attach the backup locker to the belay loop.
Makes it much easier to access it and swap backup knots.

Also, I've gotten in the habit of holding the cam down on the gri and pulling upward prior to and/or during a big step upward.

I use a modded gri with a chest attachment for free climbing. Feeds much better but too clustery for aid. Don't trust a moddy hangin from the waist.

Cheers -E

Kevin Stricker · · Evergreen, CO · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 1,197

I find a single loop backup works well and keeps cluster to a minimum. The main factor on if your grigri self feeds is the diameter of the rope and the weight on either side of the device. So at the start of a pitch have a small loop going to your backup knot ( I tie a clove on a big locker attached to my donut). Towards the end of a pitch you will need a much bigger loop to offset the pull of the fixed side of the rope on your device.

Smaller ropes feed better, but also tend to slide through your device easier. When the rope "self feeds" your backup loop will suddenly be gone and a loop will form down at your anchor. Generally when using smaller diameter ropes or on pitches that are straight up you need to "take up" some of the rope weight from your fixed end. Some people use a prussic left on a piece, I generally tie a clove on a long sling to a multi-directional piece somewhere around the middle of the pitch.

Let me know if this makes sense.

awskitc · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 0

i've been doing a bit of solo leading for easy free climbing. i used a grigri a couple times and didn't like having to pull the rope through before i moved. i tried rigging it up with a chest harness and took a much longer fall than i expected so immediately retired that system.

the best way i've figured is actually just using an ATC guide (or reverso) set up in autoblock mode with a chest harness. the system is described well here:

mountainz.co.nz/content/art…

i still havent figured out the best system to prevent the rope from self feeding, just haven't tried all the different ways yet. if somebody has tested these systems, the klemheist, the rubber band/shoelace, etc. which works best?

one more question, actually two. Should i just bite the bullet and get a silent partner? Does anybody use the silent partner for ice?

J. Thompson · · denver, co · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,425
awskitc wrote: Should i just bite the bullet and get a silent partner? Does anybody use the silent partner for ice?
My answer is yes...there is nothing better on the market for free climbing(solo)....well on lead. Others may differ on that.

As far as Ice...it's not reccomend. It's not really reccomended for climbing when its super cold either. Frost has apparently kept the device from working correctly.
There are some posts about this online...I'm just to lazy to look them up.

josh
Shawn Mitchell · · Broomfield · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 250

Thanks all for comments so far. I'm reading and absorbing. May have some practical follow up questions if we get a lull in this Minnesota winter.

B 2 · · SLC · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 5

I use Ernies method of tying my backup knots (~20ft) on a 1 ft sling girthed to my belay loop. It cuts down on the cluster fuckage at the harness.

Also, the only mod that I like on my grigri is a small hole drilled for a keeper sling. I have experimented with some of the other mods and do not like them. I use a petzl oval locking belay biner and have wrapped ducttape around the upper spine across from the gate opening. This keeps the grigri from cross loading during a fall. Some people use steel for this.

awskitc wrote:i still havent figured out the best system to prevent the rope from self feeding, just haven't tried all the different ways yet. if somebody has tested these systems, the klemheist, the rubber band/shoelace, etc. which works best? one more question, actually two. Should i just bite the bullet and get a silent partner? Does anybody use the silent partner for ice?
Klemheists and rubber bands both work great for rebelay. The advantage of klemheists is that they can also be used to rebelay the rope below edges when jugging. The disadvantage is the fear that you've just added scary friction to the system in case of a fall. I prefer the rubber bands.
T-Bob · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 50

I've been doing a bit of roped solo work on ice this winter myself. Over the years I've used everything from a Petzl Shunt, to the Solo Aid; clove hitches and Gri Gri included. I gave the solo aid right back to the guy I borrowed it from when my back-up caught me in a 20 footer that should have been a perfect catch for the device.

The Mini Traxion with a shunt up is my system of choice right now for ice TR but I consider it very imperfect. Another site which will not be named has a nice post on these. Just google "solo mini traxion. It feeds fine and transitions to rappelling super quick, but I still don't like the teeth catching a fall of any type. The solo specific devices I've tried simply do not work on iced/frozen ropes.
If you're not pushing your limits, a single handled ascender whith a prussic above it is the standard in Germany.

Good luck and be safe.

John McNamee · · Littleton, CO · Joined Jul 2002 · Points: 1,690

i can't add much to this discussion since there are so many good points already mentioned.

Just a couple of things:

- Try to borrow a silent partner and give it a go. It really is a great device. I use the single loop method that Kevin mentions above.

- I use thick rubber bands to reduce the weight of the rope slipping down. I have about a dozen in a pocket. if you are careful you can use them many times.

- The type of rope you use is really important too. Newish, about 10 - 10.2mm seems to work well.

It takes a lot of pitches before you are really dialed with the system and most people give up before then and blame the device.

Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60

Shawn,

For some additional points of view, here's a link to a thread on Supertopo that John McNamee and I have also chimed in on: supertopo.com/climbers-foru…

For me, I haven't tried any devices (though I've been tempted by the modified Grigri) since the clove hitch on double biners works so well. I limit the mess by having a backup knot every 15-20' or so, though it's still a mess in some respects.

Are you getting your game on to solo El Cap this year?

Shawn Mitchell · · Broomfield · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 250

Heh. That's ambitious unless I get a LOT faster. But I am thinking something grade V or even just IV this summer. Maybe in the Valley or Zion, or maybe Dunn Westbay on the Diamond. Burr.

Thanks for the pointers! Happy New Year.

Scott Bennett · · Western North America · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 1,265

Hey Shawn, cool you're getting psyched on walling, if you want to get out for some aid practice on a chilly day sometime, let me know.

The gri-gri doesn't feed well when you have a really big (heavy) loop of slack hanging directly off of it. One solution is to hang a loop off your gear loop (with a clove hitch). This reduces the weight on your gri-gri and lets it feed easier.

When aid climbing, feeding slack shouldn't be too much of a problem, since you can use both hands whenever you want. Lead solo free climbing is a bit tougher, it helps to pick out a stance, maybe 20' away, and then feed out enough slack to get there.

I don't usually back up the gri-gri, do you use a backup when you lead belay? Getting a DMM Belay master biner, or a steel mallion, to prevent cross-loading might be a good idea.

Climb safe,
-Scott

awskitc · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 0

i didn't back up the grigri when i started doing this but then i went 8 or 10 feet farther than i expected when i fell on it. luckily i was able to grab the brake rope. i'm not sure if the device just caught or if it only stopped because i grabbed the rope, but since then i've used back up knots.

Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669

also consider the biner that is attaching your gri to the belay loop... sometimes i use a beefy quicklink instead of a carabiner, so it has less chance of cross loading. mostly if i am free climbing, but not when i am aiding.

regarding lead falling on the grigri, in my experience, you can definately expect a lot of slippage. even on solo TR, the falls are like leader fall distances. so be mindful of what you could hit.

EDIT: oh, the cross load issue has already been addressed.

Tombo · · Boulder · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 410

I've been using the Soloist for years for solo free climbing the last couple for aid. It typically feeds well with the exception for some roof / bulge moves which isn't a problem with aid but a bummer when free climbing. This device won't catch a head first fall so like others I tie back up knots every 10-20 feet. However when top stepping I tend to tie off more due to the leverage and the potential for rocketing off.

awskitc · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 0

any suggestions for a method or device to lead solo on ice? my concern with the systems i've used to lead solo on rock are that most will not catch a head first fall. (the silent partner will catch a head first fall right???) i've never taken a lead fall on ice but it seems much more likely you would end up upside down than on rock and the silent partner is not suggested for freezing conditions.

Mike C · · Co · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 1,046

just got back from j-tree ....4 days of rope soloing. onsighted illusion dweller . it was awesome as far as adventure goes but a little lonely. i used a gri gri inverted with a small attached loop on a shoulder sling. when the gri gri is inverted it auto feeds as you lead with little trouble. as far as the back up goes, i stopped using one a while ago cause it just got in the way and whenever i fell the gri gri always worked. i do however keep the gri gri feeding well by keeping the weight of the rope off of it by looping my slack(15-25')through a mini traxion. it pulls super easy and the only problem with this is if you are not careful with the order you can end up cross clipping and sort of z-clipping yourself, in which case you have to downclimb or take the scary fall. i guess the thinner the rope the easier the gri gri feeds. Craig luebben showed me the mini traxion reverse loop suspension technique and it has helped me push myself ten times more than the old overhand loop backup. whats also nice about the mini trax is if you are doing multipitch it really comes in handy when you lower off after fixing your line and follow back up,,,its faster. i did grand giraffe the other day onsight in a couple hours....good route.

Dave Ing · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 0

Sorry to revive an old thread, but does anyone have more information about the mini traxion reverse loop suspension technique?

Thanks in advance.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Climbing Gear Discussion
Post a Reply to "Strategy for backing up a Grigri while lead sol…"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.