[edited title] - BD Xenos - BD standing behind it

A word to the wise, I've had an ice screw clipper slot rip out of two different Black Diamond Xenos harnesses after less than 8 days of use for each harness. The first one they wanted to repair, but I insisted on a new harness - which they sent me (kudos). Then the same thing happened with the second one (different slot the second time). I know of at least two other people who are having the same problem. "Design flaw" or "Made in China" I don't know, but be forewarned before plunking down $125 on one of these bad boys.

Good to know. I need an all around ice and trad harness that isn't commonly found on rank beginners (why telegraph my skill level) and is actually comfortable. I was looking at the Xenos but that would suck if the clipper slots don't hold up.

In that case I would recommend the Wild Country Elite Syncro. BEEFY clipper slots and lots of gear loops. Heavier & bulkier in the pack, yes, but the clipper slots are still bomber after a full ice season (which for me is anywhere from 30-50 days). $80 vs. $125 too. I feel like such a sucker for buying the Xenos.

I'm sorry you had problems and I was wondering about this new so called ice climbing harness Not that I would Ever waste my money on one being there test pilot only wondering if they had realy pulled there head out and made a good product rather than anouther polished POS .

Just like black garbage to make yet anouther lousy knockoff of someone elses design

I too would recomend the Syncro or a Petzl Corax II.

Okay I got some inside info. I had this harness and tore the lop of an ice clipper spot so I moved it back one did the same thing. I went to BD and asked why this happened. I was told that some harness got out with out having the lops back stitched. The harness is fine but for some reason the test harness did have back stitching on the loops but the first batch didn't so. BD is working on getting them back. I returned my harness to BD got a new one and has been fine. If it happened twice that is really odd. Just send it back and get another you will just keep increasing your ice clipper collection.

I tested mine with over 50 pounds on it and it was fine.

I saw early "prototype" pics of will gadd using this harness. He had used the rubber fitting piece that comes with the bd ice clipper to back up his clipper slots - I found it odd at the time, but maybe not so much now. I wonder if the sagging of the clipper fully loaded puts extra stress on the slot's stitching - perhaps the petzl version would stay put better.

I would say if you have the extra cash pic up the Arc'teryx x-350a - lighter better and I haven't heard of a slot failure yet, although your belay loop will wear through the leg loop connector!

The Arc'teryx choice of clipper placement is a bit odd - I am currently using a R320 with bd clippers and rubber adapters - super light and I can put them wherever I want. But, like Doug said, not super comfy long long hanging belays, but light and compact in the pack.

A friend of mine is using the WC Syncro - super beefy and he seems to like it. Maybe light isn't right in the case of the ice climbing harness? All and all, this is very disappointing that BD has released 2 duds of ice climbing harnesses...sad really.

A friend of mine has the same problem with his xenos. Hopefully the stitching is the whole problem, and it is not an inherent design flaw.

Thanks for posting Nate; that makes some sense, though I would assume after I complained, they would have made sure to send me one of the properly sewn ones. OTOH, the guy I talked to seemed mystified that such a thing could happen and I had to call twice before they'd send me a new one rather than try to repair the faulty one.

I'm quite sure the harness itself is safe; its just the design or execution of the slots. I too hope that later batches are done correctly. OTOH, what about their much vaunted 3 sigma quality control processes? Or maybe that just applies to hardware???

Regarding the x350a, I have the same experiences/comments as others here. Also, why 3 clipper slots? Two I get, four makes sense, six may be overkill, but why three????

Chris Plesko wrote:Good to know. I need an all around ice and trad harness that isn't commonly found on rank beginners (why telegraph my skill level) and is actually comfortable. I was looking at the Xenos but that would suck if the clipper slots don't hold up.

LOL! You should just make a "swami" harness out of webbing. Then, people won't know if you're a complete noob or an old school badass.

that sucks, just pulled the trigger on the new xenos. have the wild country syncro and found it to be okay but not great. I'll try it on and if it sucks I'll send it back. hope that you weren't in mid stride climbing and lose a bunch of screws Kevin.

kevin fox wrote:that sucks, just pulled the trigger on the new xenos. have the wild country syncro and found it to be okay but not great. I'll try it on and if it sucks I'll send it back. hope that you weren't in mid stride climbing and lose a bunch of screws Kevin.

I was about 3 threads away from that exact thing! I'll be calling them to express my displeasure next week. Hope yours is stitched correctly. I climbed in my Wild Country Syncro today, and the Xenos *is* more comfortable for sure. :^(((

The Xenos is proof that Black Diamond hates you, and wants you to die.

Credit where it's due, they're standing behind their product

Yeah - credit where credit is due.

"During lab and field testing..."

Corporate speak for "we screwed up, you found out, you complained twice, we resisted, you went public, so now we have to do something about it?"

LOL.

Since I don't have a Xenos, I'm wondering how, what...like are there 30 lbs of screws on the failed clip to make it tear out? Overload?

Nope. Pretty much the max # of screws I ever carry is 12 distributed over 4 clippers. MUCH less than 30 lbs.

Bar-tacking on either end of the slot would have solved the problem.

Matt, they recognized and admitted the problem with fairly minimal public scrutiny (and did replace my first harness outright, no questions asked - even cross-shipped it to me). Compare this to the "problem? what problem?" approach of a well-known small cam manufacturer.

Mattq331 wrote:The Xenos is proof that Black Diamond hates you, and wants you to die.

That's quite a comment, when the issue has nothing at all to do with the safety of the user.

Glad to see them taking care of it. I think the harness looks great but the issue was a deal breaker for me. I think I'll suffer thru another season with my safe but older harness and see what happens with the replacements. Maybe by spring the issue will be fixed with the new ones.

Tea wrote: That's quite a comment, when the issue has nothing at all to do with the safety of the user.

I think losing some screws mid pitch might impact your safety. BD is famous for beta testing on the public, and the number of BD Items I've had fail (cfbp's, o2's, oz biner, etc) have finally forced me to never buy a first gen BD product. I mean, those guys recalled my ledge after I had like six nights in it.

Thanks for testing the harness, I'm sure it'll be made better for it

Edit to note that BD has always replaced failed gear promptly and without question

I have the harness and climb once with no issue so far.i bought it in early dec 09. Im ice climbing tommorrow and going to test the clipper loops.....

P.S. I going to tie a swiss seat under my harness just in case.

I have never had a issue with any BD gear before. I love ther product and most of them have a great design and own well over $2500 of the climbing equipment.