Geezer Wall Bolt Removal

Mark Sgt wrote:Had a great sit down this evening with Jonathan, Dave and Rob from Salt Lake Climbers Alliance so we could clear the air and figure out about Geezer Wall. I believe SLCA is the best source for Salt Lake climbers to gain a voice and empower changes as we go forward with increasing number of climbers, differing opinions and face whatever else the future may hold. I feel assured that the SLCA is working towards improving avenues of communication and understanding from both within SLCA and for the community at large. I support the SLCA mission statement and anyone willing to look beyond their personal differences for the greater good of our climbing community. I look forward to working more closely with this organization in the future. Thanks guys,Mark Sargent

I like this.

clackmon wrote: YOUR campfire lol. i'm going to let the last few comments speak for themselves. there is nothing left to say here as the discussion has devolved into attacks on my appearance, stereotypes about my home state and abusive name-calling. way to show everyone what you're really all about. keep it classy SLC! xox

People from colorado tick everything in sight, have obnoxious dogs, do yoga in between burns, drink chai lattes, and blog. And then they always come to SLC/Maple/Joes/Moab every weekend to talk about how great the climbing is over there in rado. Wtf?

Wow, I just stumbled onto this topic! I'm horrified. I can't believe the entire wall is gone! Whether you agree with Geezer Wall or not, this is criminal.

I think the cowardly mental midget(s) should own their actions, explain, and at least return the gear!

I enjoyed climbing at Geezer. Thanks Mark.

clackmon wrote: YOUR campfire lol. i'm going to let the last few comments speak for themselves. there is nothing left to say here as the discussion has devolved into attacks on my appearance, stereotypes about my home state and abusive name-calling. way to show everyone what you're really all about. keep it classy SLC! xox

Sounds like the clackmon took his hacky sac and went home.

Maddog- we will miss you at the best little crag in Colorado this weekend.
Out !

I cannot understand why there is so much hate between climbers. Why do we segregate ourselves? Climbing is fun in all different ways. Bouldering is a blast for extremely difficult moves. It's great for getting stronger, and building technique. Sport climbing is an absolute blast for pushing the difficulty, and getting off the deck. Trad climbing is an amazing adventure, and cannot be missed! Some days I just want to do some multiple pitch trad route and other days I feel like doing some short steep sport route.

I have bouldering friends that have elitist attitudes towards trad climbing. They cannot understand why anyone would climb that way (usually because they've never done it). While I have trad friends that think bouldering and sport climbing are for "sissies". Climbing is climbing, and how can you call yourself peace loving climbers when you are climbing bigots?

Chopping bolts without a community consensus is unacceptable!

I hope this issue works itself out in favor of responsible bolting, which it sounds like geezer was. Lets be allowed to enjoy our mountains to their maximum potential.

The last post, which was excellent thanks Matt, poses an interesting dilemma that in or own little climbing world of which, is a microcosm of the bigger national picture, that Thomas Friedman writes about in his column today. Go to: sltrib.com/opinion/ci_13464517 to be enlightened and frightened at the same time. An excellent read it is, and I hope we all can learn from it and come together in a civil manner to remedy future Geezer Wall type issues; and more so, the daunting national woes we are currently facing.

Play nice...

I met Mark when he invited the Wasatch Mountain Club to climb at the newly completed Geezer Wall. I really enjoyed both meeting Mark and the Geezer Wall. I was mortified to go up there last Sunday and find all the bolts chopped. As in any other area of life(sports, religion, business, war, etc.) there are intelligent, peaceful people capable of resolving disagreements with cogent, well reasoned dialogue. There are also immature, stupid, hostile people who attempt to mask their insecurity with aggressive and violent behaviors. In reading all of the poorly written, angry, self righteous comments on this forum I feel like many of these people do not have much of a life, and attempt to compensate for this by acting like the spraymasters of climbing. The wilderness belongs to ALL of us. None of us are the definitive experts of how to climb and what is superior climbing ethicality. When we act like babies, we delegitimatize ourselves. Isn't it time for us to work together constructively to resolve the minor issues that divide our community? I for one look forward to climbing at the Geezer Wall when and if it is restored. In the immortal words of John Salathe "Why can't we just climb?"

die

People who bolt cracks suck.

Amen.

Unichopper,

Tell that to Lynn Hill about her bolting the roof pitch on the Nose and she will probably kick your ass.

tenesmus wrote: I take issue with several of your statements here. I just want to re-state a few things. 1-You bolted a crag that was supposed to be 'for beginners' as a community service. No one bolts a crag for anyone but themsleves. If you think you did it for anyone but you then you are not being honest with yourself. 2-You bolted a crag in a wilderness area with a power drill It gets done. Sure. But look at the uproar you're making about it. 3-You came to an SLCA sanctioned event in conjunction with the Forest Service, interrupted the event and then complained loudly that your illegally bolted crag had been chopped. 3a-Are you TRYING to get action from the Forest Service? 3b-The SLCA would have loved to have had your help at the Ferguson Crag day, where the community was being served with trail work and cleanup. Sorry you only made it there for the lunch and raffle session. 4-You talk with one or two members of the SLCA in private, come home and then proceed to slander them on the internet. Are you TRYING to get the SLCA to not help you? 5-You bundle one guy's opinions into the rest of the SLCA. Mike's words and content aside, he did have some bad timing there. 5-Its great that you got positive feedback on your area but I'd again like to emphasize that your community service is limited to your self-service. What kind of ego stroke are you getting out of that positive feedback? 6-You mock the SLCA's stewardship. This is very offensive to any community organization and shows your lack of respect for the ongoing effort they give to ensure your access to climbing in the Wasatch. This behavior is far more offensive than Mike White calling you out for bolting next to cracks and over-bolting a crag with a power drill in a wilderness area and then complaining loudly in front of the Forest Service about it. Are you trying to get them to gain a heavy hand with this kind of thing? Did you meet those trail boss' in Ferguson. They'd eat you for breakfast!

Bump.. No disrespect to all involved. I just thought that this was a very powerful post!!!

Mark Sgt wrote:Saturday, September 26th 2009 Saturday, several climbers in Big Cottonwood Canyon reported complete bolt removal on the new sport climbing area, Geezer Wall. Over 125 Rawl 5 piece bolts were taken off of 15 routes. No motive or suspects have been established. As the initial person that envisioned and developed this area, I am shocked and very disappointed in the actions of this individual(s). This wall was developed by a community of friends on a wall that I have been looking at for 20 years. The climbing community has always been comprised of individuals willing to voice strong opinions. In fact, these strong opinions have been instrumental in forging modern climbing as we know it. Many positive aspects have come about through these debates and consensus has generally been the end result. Since when does ripping out an entire wall constitute active debate or reaching consensus in the climbing community? One would have thought consensus had already been gained by the sheer amount of traffic on the wall and positive comments on the web. Geezer Wall was a wall designed for moderate climbers in a place where there were no known existing climbs. It was meant as a gift to the climbing community and the climbing community just got ripped off. Mark Sargent

Bump!! Just thought it was a powerful post

Nicely said Ben! We should be considerate of others climbing styles. These cliffs are everyone's to enjoy. Just because a 5.5 sport route doesn't get me excited doesn't mean that it doesn't excite someone else, and I should respect that.

If everyone was as reasonable as Ben, we wouldn't be having this issue.

mattjbudd wrote:Nicely said Ben! We should be considerate of others climbing styles. These cliffs are everyone's to enjoy. ... If everyone was as reasonable as Ben, we wouldn't be having this issue.

True. True. True. True.

Ben RULES!

And what's with all the hate for climbers from places that won't be mentioned? Don't get it.

I climbed midlife cracksis last weekend.

Good route. Small cams, nuts and a #2 cam.

But The 8 bolt holes did take away from the route.

Just the facts mam, just the facts.

I will be there sunday climbing some of the other routes, if anybody wants to check out the wall then stop by.

Please everyone come out and form your own opinion.
Its easy to spray about it, but you can't say much unless you have been there.

I just want the community involved. We need everyone to help figure this out.

Bring your rack!!

mikewhite wrote: Bring your rack!!

Hehehe. I climbed this route the other day to see what all the bitchin and moanin was about and, for once, I totally agree with the mass removal a crag's fixed hardware. I've seen grid bolted areas before, but this one left me scratchin my head, especially knowing that the bolters are well respected round these parts.

Sorry guys, but over bolting protectable cracks and easy 5th class rock under the "did it for the beginners" excuse is pretty weak sauce.

+1 for patching and +1 for future removal if re-equipped (can't believe I just said that)

Here's my opinion - put them back. There aren't enough beginner learning areas that are quite that easy and density around. It will keep them off things that they will get hurt on.

I think it is a bit farcical how everyone complains after the fact, but no one had bothered going up there till it was bolted. No one was lining up to plug gear there before and the only reason anyone who climbs harder than 5.7 cracks has gone at all is because of the controversial and spray.

I appreciate people having an educated opinion on it - going out and climbing on it to give an informed opinion. But those are also the people who wouldn't climb there anyway.

My 2c - Bolt it back up.

PT