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Grading Question

Original Post
cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355

I'm struggling with grading on cracks.

Question:

Take an idealized perfectly vertical, perfectly parallel, deep hand crack. No face holds. Grade?

Edit - also, not in a corner, dihedral or anything of the like. Vertical flat face, vertical parallel hand crack. I'm not referring to any specific climb - just trying to get a baseline for what the difficulty of basic crack moves is on the scale.

Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669
Chris Drover wrote:I am a recent convert from the bolt side (more accurately, I have finally raised sufficient funds to begin trad), and I'm struggling with grading on cracks. Question: Take an idealized perfectly vertical, perfectly parallel, deep hand crack. No face holds. Grade? Edit - also, not in a corner, dihedral or anything of the like. Vertical flat face, vertical parallel hand crack. Note that I'm not referring to any specific climb - just trying to get a baseline for what the difficulty of trad moves is on the scale.
oh god. you just opened pandoras box.

besides, to answer your hypothetical description, it could be anywhere from 5.6-5.12 depending on your hand size and experience level.
Jeff Fox · · Delaware, OH · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,320

5.fun

Ben Baird · · Boulder, CO · Joined May 2008 · Points: 10

This is probably the best hand crack I've ever had the chance to lead.

mountainproject.com/v/utah/…

It is of course sandstone so the jams aren't as bomber as other rock types.

Mark your cams and climb safe
-baird

pfwein Weinberg · · Boulder, CO · Joined May 2006 · Points: 71

How would a vertical hand crack be 5.6? Super, super short (like 1 move)? Even short hand cracks tend to get 5.8 IMO (think Short and Stupid in Moab, on this site).
I'm sure there are variables, but to try to generally answer the question, I'd say 5.9, unless it is super short (then prob 5.8) or super long (then prob 5.10). But maybe I'm oversimplifying.

Tim C · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 215

Sounds like super crack to me. I'd say that would be 5.10+/- depending on your hand size. All cracks will feel different for each person depending on hand size mainly.

Brian in SLC · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 21,711
Chris Drover wrote:Take an idealized perfectly vertical, perfectly parallel, deep hand crack. No face holds. Grade?
Perfect hand crack? 5.9.

For me, that means a #3 friend crack. For you?

Really depends on your hand size...

-Brian in SLC
Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

.6 to .8 -- could be higher, depends more on how the feet go. It's a moderate climb.

But 5.12?? c'mon Darren; I realize CCC can be soft, but don't get carried away.

cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355

Thanks for all the replies; and I certainly understand it varies from person to person. Mostly I'm just trying to get a feel for what something like "5.9 hands" on a topo might mean. I've spent too much time on faces...

BTW: my favorite reply (though maybe not the most helpful) had to be jfox's!

colin tucker · · Monticello, UT · Joined May 2007 · Points: 35

seriously, the only way to know what 5.9 hands means on a topo is to climb a bunch of 5.9 hands at a bunch of areas. If you compare a 5.9 handcrack at Vedauwoo to one at the City of Rocks, both are old granite, but very different experiences (ie ass kicking versus cruise).

Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325

Gargoyle in JTree is straight in hands and feet and a 5.6. However it's neither dead vertical nor very long IIRC.
Hard 8 to 10a sounds about right depending on how comfy the feet are and length.

Brigette Beasley · · Monroe, WA · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 275

As someone told me just before my first trip to Indian Creek: "In the creek, it's not about ratings, it's all about hand size. You might cruise a 5.10b, just because your hands are the perfect fit." Not terribly helpful, I know, but *absolutely true.*

Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325

Gargoyle in JTree is straight in hands and feet and a 5.6. However it's neither dead vertical nor very long IIRC.
Hard 8 to 10a sounds about right depending on how comfy the feet are and length.

Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325

Gargoyle in JTree is straight in hands and feet and a 5.6. However it's neither dead vertical nor very long IIRC.
Hard 8 to 10a sounds about right depending on how comfy the feet are and length.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

could you repeat that Kevin?

or are you just taking virtual laps on a handcrack?

Tim McCabe · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 130
Kevin Craig wrote:Gargoyle in JTree is straight in hands and feet and a 5.6. However it's neither dead vertical nor very long IIRC. Hard 8 to 10a sounds about right depending on how comfy the feet are and length.
That sounds about right.

And that same crack would be easy for an experienced crack climber and damn near impossible looking to any one else.
rob bauer · · Golden, CO · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 3,929

I first went to the desert in 1980 with no particular crack skills (and fewer friends) and I would agree with the 5.fun rating. If you look at it and it strikes you as something that you can to do, then get on it! (In my later years, sometimes I see the ratings and if I'd known it then I wouldn't have tried it. But somehow I did it then.) Repeating, if it looks good to you: give it a go!
Edit: Bring your bino's to figure the pro to what you may have.

Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325

Dang! Sorry Mark. I was posting from my phone and my post wasn't showing up so I kept submitting. Doh!

Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669
Mark Nelson wrote: But 5.12?? c'mon Darren; I realize CCC can be soft, but don't get carried away.
i dont know of any cracks like this in CCC.

Slice and Dice, IC UT, (5.12) is an example that fits his description for someone that has little hands.

in other words, if the OP specified the size of the crack relative to his hands, then that would help with the answer of grade.

EDIT: actually, Coyne Crack is a better example. My point was earlier is that a "hand" crack can mean anything from baggy greens to blue camalots... depending on who you are.

but i am being a smart ass, and usually hands means 2.5 Friend.
Petsfed 00 · · Snohomish, WA · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 989
colin tuck wrote:seriously, the only way to know what 5.9 hands means on a topo is to climb a bunch of 5.9 hands at a bunch of areas. If you compare a 5.9 handcrack at Vedauwoo to one at the City of Rocks, both are old granite, but very different experiences (ie ass kicking versus cruise).
Depends on the 5.9 hands. Plumbline is a cake walk. Climb and Punishment is... not so much.

For a dead vertical, #3 friends size that has no flares or constrictions, tentatively 5.9. Could be as hard as 5.9+ if its a full ropelength's worth.
Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60

I agree with jfox.

Having said that, I think it's kind of a strange question (not to sound negative; I just can't think of a better word right now). It's just so academic and there are always so many factors involved in rating a climb.

My advice: forget about ratings, adjust your expectations downward a little since you're probably learning to place gear and just climb what looks nice and protects well. When in doubt, back up your gear.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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