which hooks to get?

So I want to start playing with hooks. What should I get to start with or what will I use the most?

Thanks
Evan

Perhaps a double set of the talon, graupling, and cliff hanger combo will get you by most of what you will run into at first.
It is route specific though as some routes require "large hooks", cam hooks and sometimes even pointed hooks(bat hooking, not always with a talon).

Peckers are good also(although some argue they aren't hooks, look at em, that's not shaped like a hook?), even if you don't have a hammer you can sometimes hand place them in thin seams where small nuts may not work. I've used rocks in place of a hammer if I can find a solid enough rock.

Don't forget to double up on hooks as you may need the same hook back to back. (having a partner with another single set is a good sub. if your low on dough)

Top used hooks, in my expereince (C2 trade route crap):

1. Cliff Hanger hook, used more than any other hook I have. Get doubles, file one to a point.

2. Small leeper cam hook, close second, avoids goofy nut placements and tricky small offset alien placements. Get doubles, consider keeping one each on your daisies on any pitch with significant sections of small cracks.

3. Grappling Hook, another bread and butter hook. Get doubles, file one to a point.

4. Big hook, I really like Fish's ring angle piton hook, bent to 2.5". It's not on Russ's standard list, email him for one. I find this sucker just darn handy and opens upa lot of C1 hooks instead of C2+ other stuff otherwise. If you buy doubles, keep the second in the haul bag in case you drop the first. Can be left as pro with a bit of duck tape.

5. Talon, you need it for the occasional bat hook, and narrow ledge, but I find mine suprisingly little used. Only buy doubles to have a backup. These snarl with other hooks worse than any other hook.

6. Large leeper cam hook. I'd use it more for goofy pin scars if the narrow cam hook and offset aliens didn't work so darn often there.

Consider:
- Leeper Logan hook. I've had a couple occasions on Basalt where the Talon's tripod base was too big on a narrow ledge in the back of a dihedral, while my logan hook was pure gold. Maybe snag one of this instead of a second talon?

Avoid:

- Micro cam hook, never used or missed mine
- Fragile flake cam hook, same story

Fish's small beef bag is great for carrying hooks. I keep a set of hooks on a biner inside, and it really cuts down on the frustration of hook snarls. Alternatively carry your hooks on the extra loops and such on the front of your double gear sling. They are mostly out of the way, and much easier to see while untangling things when they inevitably get snarled (snarls in the back of your harness suck to debug mid-lead).

The only hooks I've ever used on up to old school A3+ on the Captain are a cliff hanger (both flat and filed to a point), a thin leeper and a fish hook (ring angle claw). That last hook was only needed on the Pacific Ocean Wall, where we needed two.

Having said that, I haven't been on the Big Stone in a dozen years and can't comment on how some routes have been doctored. Still, it's probably safe to say that if you're going up on a standard A2/C2, you'll be fine with a couple of cliff hangers and a talon or two, unless you know the route specifically calls for something larger.

Remember, it's not rocket science. An edge is an edge. It's either going to be flat, or enhanced with a drill or a big flake that needs a big hook.

I'd get a double set of all the BD hooks and if you have the cash a third set of the cliff hanger and grappling hook to file to a point. That will start you out for most routes. Later look for the fish hook and get two. Russ sells them on EBay as a Fish ring angle.

As far as cam hooks go, they are priceless for clean aid and making things go faster.

Also for bat hook holes you can use the BD Talon, but what works better is taking a grappling hook and grind it down so it's kinda flat and pointed so you can tap it into the hole. For me, I feel a bit more secure on a flat grappling hook rather than a Talon.

Hope this helped.

Zac

Caz wrote:As far as cam hooks go, they are priceless for clean aid and making things go faster. Zac

Yeah, I hear cam hooks are awesome when not on sandstone. However, I'm still a little unclear as to how the are placed and used. Does anybody have a photo of one in use because my mind isn't wrapping around the written descriptions I've read.

Oh, and thanks for the good input. Now, does anybody have some hooks gathering they'd part with?

Evan

I would just buy the BD hooks and then purchase other hooks as you need then. You can do a lot of routes with just a grappling hook. No point in spending a lot of money unless you have it to spare.

A good thing you can do is purchase gear based on the next route you are planning on climb. Climb it and then figure out your next route is going to be and then buy the gear for that one. Over time you will build up a nice rack that actually gets used.

Evan1984 wrote: Yeah, I hear cam hooks are awesome when not on sandstone. However, I'm still a little unclear as to how the are placed and used. Does anybody have a photo of one in use because my mind isn't wrapping around the written descriptions I've read. Oh, and thanks for the good input. Now, does anybody have some hooks gathering they'd part with? Evan

Here is the standard way to use a cam hook:


And here is the inverted way to use a cam hook:


The inverted way is kinda scary at first because the cam hook will bend and creak but it has held me just fine. The standard way doesn't seem like it would be bomber but once you place it and weight it, you are good to go.

Happy hooking!

-n

I've had an inverted cam hook break a fragile granite flake.

Evan, I have an extra set of old cam hooks. If you want them send me a PM.

PM Sent...

If Evan doesn't buy your cam hooks I'll buy them :-)

Thanks for the pics, that was how I was imagining it, but I didn't really believe it would work. I guess I'll have to try.

Hey JC, I sent you a PM, but why don't you offer them up to John because I have some other places that need money at the moment.

Evan

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Advanced cam- hooking

That. Is. RE-DONK-ULOUS!

buy whatever hooks you can get your hands on.
remember once you fall on them you have to discard it.
also, remember that hooks especially talon's can take a bite out of your face if it were to pull so,put your hand over it when testing.

have fun hooking away!

Russ Walling wrote: That there is complete and utter bullshit.

Agreed- a staged hook-fest is a bad thing and hooks are WAY stronger than people think. I may be biased but - I would use Fish Hooks

this topic inspired me to do a search for "advance hooking technique" and this NASA link is what I came up with.

I can't wait for the El Cap X-Prize.

I guess you know more than me russ. maybe you can explain why I would think that!

no not trolling just sharing.

the last time I took a daisy fall onto a hook and it bent but held.
because I'm heavy the hook bent but still held onto the edge! I rebent it back with the hammer and it broke!

some hooks are made of better metals than others.

fish hooks are indestructible while petzel hooks break.

and yes, somebody has told me that line "once you fall on a hook discard it".

drink a Sierra for me!