Dead Dog Couloir in December?

Can anyone offer input regarding the snow conditions in Dead Dog Couloir in mid-December? I have some friends coming into town to get some winter alpine experience in preparation for a bigger trip later in the season. I know, December isn't the best time of year but that's what I've got to work with.

I'm thinking about taking them up Dead Dog but I haven't done it this early in the winter and am not familiar with the snow conditions. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Craig

Predicting Avy conditions 6 weeks from now is pretty much impossible, but generally being in the Dead Dog in December isn't smart. Maybe look to RMNP for some snow routes that might be safe(r).

There has already been an avy incident up there this season...early winter CO snowpack is generally sketchy. climbinglife.com/latest-new…

I agree with Tyson, the thing is a gigantic avalanche chute. At least one dog has paid the price!

we've already had 3 take a thousand foot ride down on Torreys.

Talking with the Avy Center on Thursday, they told me a party of two were climbing the Dead Dog the same day those three climbers went on their wild ride. That party turned back pretty high up after hearing "wumping" in the snow.

Given its posture and direction, I'd definitely take them some place else. Maybe give the Indian Peaks a look.

Maybe instead of climbing early season unconsolidated snow you and your friends should take and avalanche course

Can't you just ski down it really quick and fill a backpack full of pillows just in case? As long as you bring a daisy chain you should be OK.

Thanks to those of you who provided helpful input on the conditions for this route in mid-December.

East aspect slid near Loveland Pass on Sat, I think. called the Kitchen Wall. wind loaded slab on a weak layer about 35-38 degrees angle at a somewhat mid-slope trigger between rock bands, no injuries reported.

Peacock may chime in with specifics, he knows more about this stuff than I do. Since the caic isn't active yet, figured anyone out there should take notice that CO (Clear Creek & Summit Ctys) currently has snowpack conditions conducive to slides on wind-loaded aspects.

George Bell wrote:I agree with Tyson, the thing is a gigantic avalanche chute. At least one dog has paid the price!

So what was the story about that dog?

Mark Nelson wrote:East aspect slid near Loveland Pass on Sat, I think. called the Kitchen Wall. wind loaded slab on a weak layer about 35-38 degrees angle at a somewhat mid-slope trigger between rock bands, no injuries reported. Peacock may chime in with specifics, he knows more about this stuff than I do. Since the caic isn't active yet, figured anyone out there should take notice that CO (Clear Creek & Summit Ctys) currently has snowpack conditions conducive to slides on wind-loaded aspects.

Yeah, watch out. I'm hearing reports of other avalanche activity in the Front Range. It's tricky because it really doesn't even seem like there's enough snow right now to have an avalanche. On some windloaded aspects, however, there are areas with just enough and we're seeing some tender snow in those spots. On the Kitchen Wall slide on Loveland, I did a quick fracture line profile yesterday. The snow had a LOT of energy in it - CT 0 Q1, ECT 4 Q1 for you snow people. Be careful out there... You could easily be walking on rocks and step into a booby trap.

To the OP - I don't know what your and your friends skills are, but Dead Dog is serious business in the winter. I won't say it's impossible and never passable, but it's pretty much a recipe for avalanche: east facing (which means usually wind loaded), high, cold and steep.

Mid-December totally varies from year to year. Some seasons we'll have coverage, but it'll still be fairly lean. OTOH, last year we had a huge storm cycle mid December and it dumped. Great skiing. Bad avalanche conditions. Just be flexible and see what happens...

If your serious about this pursuit then I recommend keeping a close eye on localized conditions(all recent slide activity in the area), snowpack, weather patterns etc. You must really know your stuff avy wise or your going to get more then you ask for(possibly the icy grave). Torreys in winter is a beast for sure, I've attempted it probly 4-5 times now and only been on top once with snow cover, and it was in april not december.

Study hard and if your lucky maybe the stars will line up for ya. Your best bet would be to wait till just after it has reportedly slid and taken all the sketch out with it(not ideal for skiing but for climbing it's fine). Either get up there after it slides before the next snow, or hope/check to see if the next snow bonds better to the slide debris.
The key is really to be aware of what the snow is/has been doing upto that point, and being able to make a reasonable educated guess about your saftey based on all of the evidence avaliable.(the snowpack changes from year to year so looking for a generalized awnser about what to expect for snowpack is a bit futile)

Generally if you have to ask you probly don't belong there.
The kelso ridge might be a safer option.

Jason Kaplan wrote:Generally if you have to ask you probly don't belong there. The kelso ridge might be a safer option.

Since when is a search for the information required to assess the safety of a route an indication that you shouldn't be on the route?

Justin Peacock wrote: Yeah, watch out. I'm hearing reports of other avalanche activity in the Front Range. It's tricky because it really doesn't even seem like there's enough snow right now to have an avalanche. On some windloaded aspects, however, there are areas with just enough and we're seeing some tender snow in those spots. On the Kitchen Wall slide on Loveland, I did a quick fracture line profile yesterday. The snow had a LOT of energy in it - CT 0 Q1, ECT 4 Q1 for you snow people. Be careful out there... You could easily be walking on rocks and step into a booby trap. To the OP - I don't know what your and your friends skills are, but Dead Dog is serious business in the winter. I won't say it's impossible and never passable, but it's pretty much a recipe for avalanche: east facing (which means usually wind loaded), high, cold and steep. Mid-December totally varies from year to year. Some seasons we'll have coverage, but it'll still be fairly lean. OTOH, last year we had a huge storm cycle mid December and it dumped. Great skiing. Bad avalanche conditions. Just be flexible and see what happens...

Thanks for the helpful information. I've summited Torrey's in the winter before and Dead Dog is within my skill range. I just haven't been up there in mid-December. I assumed DD in December was a bad idea but I was hoping I was wrong and thought I'd ask.

I'm looking for a route that provides the experience of a challenging winter alpine route with low avalanche danger. What I need is a route that requires crampons & axe, that provides plenty of exposure to high altitude (although, it doesn't need to be a 14'er), and that offers the kind of scenarios that allow me to point out avalanche indicators. And, I need it to be relatively safe in mid-December.

Of course, this is all entirely dependent on the weather. It always is. But, if anyone has any suggestions for routes that I should consider, please let me know.

I'm looking for a route that provides the experience of a challenging winter alpine route with low avalanche danger. What I need is a route that requires crampons & axe, that provides plenty of exposure to high altitude (although, it doesn't need to be a 14'er), and that offers the kind of scenarios that allow me to point out avalanche indicators. And, I need it to be relatively safe in mid-December

These are the types of routes I spend a lot of time on in the winter. I'm up in the high country almost once per week. You should check out summitpost.com. That site has a ton of mountaineering information on 12, 13 and 14ers. Let me know if you have room for one more. Not interested in Dead Dog in winter but would really like to do this:

How about the Through on Longs: summitpost.org/route/160362…

Tracy Roach wrote:I'm looking for a route that provides the experience of a challenging winter alpine route with low avalanche danger. What I need is a route that requires crampons & axe, that provides plenty of exposure to high altitude (although, it doesn't need to be a 14'er), and that offers the kind of scenarios that allow me to point out avalanche indicators. And, I need it to be relatively safe in mid-December These are the types of routes I spend a lot of time on in the winter. I'm up in the high country almost once per week. You should check out summitpost.com. That site has a ton of mountaineering information on 12, 13 and 14ers. Let me know if you have room for one more. Not interested in Dead Dog in winter but would really like to do this: How about the Through on Longs: summitpost.org/route/160362…

Thanks for that input. I've considered Long's as a possible destination but it wasn't at the top of my list due to the long approach many of the routes require. Do you know how long this route is estimated to take? Also, as the trough is a NW aspect, do you know what the typical snow conditions in mid-December are?

Crag Dweller wrote: Since when is a search for the information required to assess the safety of a route an indication that you shouldn't be on the route?

I've repeatedly asked Snodale to configure our snowpack by color. red being danger; that way, when you approach a technical route from bottom & up, you will then know. For some reason, he laughs.

Mark Nelson wrote: I've repeatedly asked Snodale to configure our snowpack by color. red being danger; that way, when you approach a technical route from bottom & up, you will then know. For some reason, he laughs.

What?! It's not color coded??!! Crap, I was expecting to see green or yellow snowfields with little red dots in the dangerous sections. Damnit, now I'm gonna have to bring packets of kool-aid with me and do it myself along the way. :-p

Flattop will probably treat you well that time of year. You could do the dead elk coulior and still retain almost the same cool name. The chokestone section is the crux...if you don't like that there is dragon's tail next door. Could be dangerous or could be good that time of year. Check out Eli's site which tends to have good up to date avy conditions in the park. climbinglife.com