Self-Belay Lead climbing

I am beginning my research on how to solo climb. I am particularly looking to learn how to self belay while leading. Which ascender/grigri/cinch to use, and how to rig it to your harness to clip into each piece of gear. I have spent time reading in books, scouring the internet and have yet yo find a desent source on this topic. I understand the whole multi-directional anchor at the bottom of each pitch; but does that mean you carry the rest of the rope up with you?
I am a very visual learner so if anyone knows where I can find text AND diagrams on this subject, please let me know. Also, please chime in and share your knowlege. I am a sponge ready to learn as much as I can before I go out and try this! Thanks a bunch.

You can either:

1) take the rope with you and have to carry it and figure a way to keep it out of the way and feeding

2) leave it at the bottom and carry only a loop with you and figure a way to keep it feeding without tangling

[ disclaimer: if you figure out a way to kill or injure yourself based on my limited and mostly worthless information you are totally on your own and cannot blame me in any way ]

Best diagram on solo climbing.
Thanks Pete.

-E

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ay why would you want to do that anyway? just kidding.
so your new to solo, I'll tell you what I know, should take about 5 minutes. 1st start with some bolted routes that are well within your limit, spend some time getting these wired and pich something with really good clipping stances and relatively safe, IE, a coule grades below your limit. There are several methods, I've used a few and it depends on what you want to do with your time life and safety. In the 90's I met a guy named Jim Bridwell, he asked me if I wanted to do a route that he had been working on in AK, I said probably not. It took him 5 seconds or less to size me up and the next thing he said is so your a free climber huh? All I could say was yes, I've french freed some stuff in a pince but I was essentially a free climber. Hwe said you gotta learn how to fucking nail and walked away. So, I was in a spot similar to you and wanted to learn how to fucking nail. I nailed some stuff at devils tower, learned from a guy named Frank Sanders, if you want to learn first hand how to fucking nail look him up devilstowerlodge.com

Then I climbed the titan, fischer towers, utah. holly shit, thats not rock and thats not climbing was all I could add to a two day grovel fest up a giant chunk of mud in the desert. I did chew a hole in my lip on one pitch for something to do.

So do you want to rope solo aid climb, rope solo free climb or what?

Back to the bolts, anchor the rope at the bottom, do the moves to the 1st bolt, clip into it with a double length sling attached to your harness, it should be tight when the biner is in your outstretched hand. get it, you can clip the bolt with a biner that is attached to a sling that is attached to your harness without any slack in the teather. the rope is attached to the anchor and runs through a gri gri attached to your waist, locking biner of course. the rope, still anchored to the ground runs from the anchor to the gri gri in a fashion when you clip the rope into a draw that you've just placed on the bolt the gri gri works as it should and engages the rope and will stop a fall. which means you have to clip the anchored end of the rope to the draw. this is when I anchor the rope to the first bolt as a back up to the ground anchor. Now you want to be on an easy route because your going to give your self enough slack to reach the second bolt which means that if you fall your probably going to hit the griund. You want to give your self enough slack to at least clip into the 2nd bolt with the sling at your waist that you must remove from the bolt before you start climbing. a static fall anywhere on the route will probably put you in the hospital. avoid a static fall and groundfalls like the hiv? blotto drunkard working the corner of, well you get the point. continue this process until you are at the top of the route or practice. there are additional tricks such as modifying a gri gri to feed much more easily than a stock gri gri, yosemite style.

If Your flying the iron kite with a hammer and ins and all that cool shit used to modify rock routes that eventually enadble people to free climb on gear that does not modify the rock there are several methods to learn and choose from. place piece, clip to it, bounch up and down repeatedly, move up on aiders, place piece, bounce up and down repeatedly, move up on aiders, bounch up and down repeatedly. While you are doing this the rope (which is anchored to a multi directional anchor at the base) is being clippe through successive pieces of gear and you are lengthening the rope by feeding it through a device on your waist. old schoolers will teach the double biner and clove hitch, this works well and if you have relatively continuous cracks is safer that the bolted wall method. NO need to pay out a bunch of slack to reach the next bolt you can pay out a little bit as you stand in the top aider and stretch forthe next placement, or if your scared just step up as far as you want and put in gear and keep moving. if this is confusing, ask around, its not hard its a bit comlicated. the best part about it is once you get the rope up at a bolted crag you can access climbs that are to the immediate left or right by rappeling a bit clipping a directional and continuing to rappel. I will usually isolate the rope from edges as I go with a slip knot, once I reach the slip knot I'll pull it out and continue climbing. I use a gri gri for self belay and a triaxon for climbing on a top rope. I use a burly rope 10.5 at least and dont shock load it, if you do cut out the soft spot because there will be one. also a heavy duty sheath is better that a light one, this should be obvious but if it's not I'd back up and do some reasearch on rope construction. I've had good luck ice climbing with that petzl device, no moving parts, and a static rope. you can also bulid a load absorbing anchor if you want with a screamer, outta here, stay safe.

I wouldn't recommend Pete's system as a starting point. It is very complicated and many things can wrong with it. I personally think the key is to keep things really simple. Less can go wrong then.

i use a silent partner. Its not perfect but it works pretty well and I know it is going to catch a fall. Its great when you're dong mixed aid and free. For pure aid an unmodified grigri works fine. I like the continuous loop method as shown in my diagram below:

rope systems

Anchors a set up an upward pull when leading. The diagram doesn't show that. A screamer is built into the anchor system as well. There are lots of tricks out there to prevent rope drag from the anchor. Some people use rebelay points, klemheist cords etc. I use thin ropes (10.2mm) and rubber bands.

Start with really easy stuff to dial in the system. Accept that things will go wrong and each time you go out you will learn heaps. Practice leading, cleaning and hauling by yourself with a decent weight before launching up a wall. It's a lot of work, you never have a spare moment during the day, there is always something to do... but its a lot of fun and very rewarding.

Free free to email me if you have specific questions etc.

Ok, lets see if I can convey this in words.

Here's the setup:
Aid soloing
Unmodified gri-gri
continuous loop method

My questions is: You're highstepping and the rope is running between your legs as per usual. If the piece you're on blows and your feet stay in the aiders (I use the automatic metolius aiders so there's no way they're coming out) isn't it highly likely your aiders will flip you upside down and smash up against the gri-gri and prevent it from locking? Or to explain the situation another way: your aiders will be in a very short "v" formation over your rope. When you fall and the next piece of gear catches you, this "v" with your feet in it will be on top of the rope.

I tried just running the rope outside this "v", but it's a huge hassle sometimes. Has anyone else had this problem? If you have regular ladders do you feet come out of them most of the time? I'm thinking of switching back to the ladders. Any advice?

Holy crap there are some confusing methods out there. I don't know how safe this is, but attach your rope to the bottom bolt. Run the rope through your grigri and backwards and attach your grigri directly to your harness. Just clip the draws underneath the grigri. If you fall then the grigri will lock and the weight will be distributed between it and the bottom bolt. The only disadvantage with this method that I know of is that sometimes the grigri will be stubborn and you'll have to feed the rope through by hand.

Jordan,
I'm by no means am I an expert but I've learned a few things along the way, apparently at some point I became teachable. I use regular ladders hang two on a biner and two on another biner, hang one set on each piece of gear. Before moving up, fly the iron kite/bounce up and down testing the gear. This may seem rediculous considering the gear used and the quality/type of rock your on but what the fuck, fly the iron kite. (Approriate through A2+ granite) after flying the iron kite... oh the thing that will keep you from falling is that while bouncing you are still in the lower aider which is on a piece that you've flown to hell and back and its good. Thats about it. sock guy had a good explanation of what I was trying to say earlier.

One thing that is probably a very very good idea at the very beginning:

Set up some top-rope solo and see if you even like it. Then do some mock-leading on top-rope solo. By that time you should have figured out the rope system that will work best for you.

Baby steps.

Here's what I did: Purchased a Soloist, read the manual, went to some routes I'd never climbed and led them--figuring things out as I went. Adrenaline factor: priceless!!

I haven't done any of this free soloing jazz but it seems fun. Here is a method I say a guy using and am wondering how safe it would be.
Multi Directional anchor at the bottom of the climb with a rope end attach to it. Then that anchored end of the rope attached to the climber with a clove hitch(?) that you can adjust to get more slack. I think he just had the rope pile on the ground and had it feed up to him.

That would work right? Seems simple enough. Is the clove hitch correct, do you just hitch it onto a single carabiner?

Korgil wrote:I haven't done any of this free soloing jazz

This is "rope soloing" - in free soloing there is no rope.

Korgil,
Thats it, you should tie into the rope if your going to get near the end. the only time I'm not tied in is when I've got a route dialed and this is typically a bolted wall environment. if your not tied in and you drop the rope you've got no rope, in this realm of self sufficiency you can save yourself a lot of hassel and embarresment by tying into the rope, not to mention your life. I would use two locking biners, the result makes the radius of the clove greater than a single locking biner which is easier to use. Also in this era of self sufficiency....

Korgil wrote:I haven't done any of this free soloing jazz but it seems fun. Here is a method I say a guy using and am wondering how safe it would be. Multi Directional anchor at the bottom of the climb with a rope end attach to it. Then that anchored end of the rope attached to the climber with a clove hitch(?) that you can adjust to get more slack. I think he just had the rope pile on the ground and had it feed up to him. That would work right? Seems simple enough. Is the clove hitch correct, do you just hitch it onto a single carabiner?

Known issues with the clove hitch.

1. you need to use two clove hitches and two biners.

2. If you load them in a fall they are very hard to get undone.

3. Werner over on sp.com has seen them break.

If you're using a grigri, buy a really good petzl mallion rather than a biner. Biners will cross load and break. I'm not trying to be dramatic.

Weird stuff can happen on a wall so whatever system you sort out it has to have a lot of redundancy built in.

Learned from experience. Try on own risk. Not endorsed by the manufacturers:
Take a petzl gri-gri. Use a hacksaw to cut the triangular piece of right above the clip in hole.(the piece prevents the rope from getting pinched and guides the rope to slide closely to the cam style groove. Make sure the metal don't heat up when you saw and file it smooth. Next drill a diagonal hole (about 1/8") from the handle side of the gri-gri down into the plastic molding just left of the fine writing ("for rope 1 uiaa ......") and finish on the hinge side of the L of Petzl printed on the plastic molded part. Use a triangular metal mailon (used mostly in the caving or rigging industry ) to attach the gri-gri from your belay loop with the flat plastic molded side flat against your chest. Tie a thin strong string in a small loop through the newly drilled hole. Use a chest harness and a demi-round miallon clipped through the little string loop. This should keep the gri-gri in a upright way with the handle opening away from your chest. Rig the rope through your gri-gri as you would do normally (check the little pictures on the side to make sure).
Attach rope to a multi directional anchor (with at least 2 solid anchors to take an upward force). You should carry the rope an a barrel type backpack with a gate on your shoulder to guide the rope( coiled swat rappel style in the backpack) if you plan to free climb and move quickly or dyno.
I've climbed numerous trad and sport; single and multi pitch routes this way. It held all my falls and allowed me to move quickly in any direction except down. NB: PLEASE make a knot or three in the end of the rope in your backpack, or better tie it to your harness on multi pitch climbs. Enjoy the jumar up again to clean your pitch.

Please Note: I am by no means an expert in the engineering of climbing techniques and climbing equipment. This method described is not endorsed by the manufacturer and the gri-gri is not designed as a rope solo device. All I give you is my personal experience. Always use a belay partner and toprope when experimenting with new techniques.

Be safe out there: Get a partner!!

Grigri modification is not necessary or recommended if you are primarily aid climbing. I actually feel it is much riskier than using multiple clove hitches due to the much higher propensity of your aid clutter keeping your grigri from engaging. It also prevents the device from engaging during inverted falls and increases the chances that your rope could be cut from the relatively sharp edge on the bottom of the handle. If you do enough research on the web you will find that many of the people who once though the modified grigri was the ultimate for rope soloing no longer endorse it's use. I used my modified grigri for at least a hundred pitches before giving it up. I wanted a lighter system but decided the risks were not worth it.

There is no perfect soloing system, as each form of climbing (i.e. free, aid, bigwall) all have different requirements and devices that perform best. You will find that if you ask 10 serious soloist about their systems you will probably have 10 different answers. We all think our way is the best, which is probably good considering the trust we place in it. The most important thing is to know the strengths and limitations of device/system you are using. Rope soloing is all about individual preference and expression, but most who attempt it decide quickly that it is not for them. If you take your time and do your homework you will discover what works best for you and increase the odds that you will stick with it.

Good luck and be safe.

There are all sorts of different methods out there, gri gri, all the Wren products clove hitch method. No matter what method you use make sure to use a back up knot OR YOU WILL DIE...
I use the same method as John M. but instead I use a kinda modified Gri Gri. the only thing I have done to it is that I put a loop through the front of it so I can attach it to my chest harness and keep it upright. I attach it with cheap thine line so it will break if I take a head over heals fall. Also look into re-belays as Mike said.

I think Mike's diagram is great and is way less complicated than Pete's method. As a matter of fact I think He's changed the way he does things now. Hopefully he'll be around soon, He just got off the Captin.

But like I said BACK UP KNOTS!!!

I just tie a overhand knot about 10' under my Gri Gri and do about 5 loops of that and attach them to my harness so every time I need more rope I can unclip one and untie it.

I hope I didn't confuse you...

Zac

While we're here, anyone take a whipper on a mini-traxion?

Rick Miske wrote:While we're here, anyone take a whipper on a mini-traxion?

No - but I took a pretty good zipper once, back in the day, using the Barnett system*. First lead fall I'd taken with in - recall thinking, rather abstractly, 'wonder if this is going to work?' It did.

swm

• See Advanced Rockcraft. I won't go so far as to recommend this method - but it is pretty simply and worked for me.

I dont know if it counts as a whipper because I was climbing a fixed line with the mini triaxon. I fell and shock loaded the rope about 40 feet from the top so not much stretch. I cut the soft spot out of the rope after the fall. armed with this knowledge I would gig a load reducer into the anchor or use a tibloc rather than the mini which would probably reduce the force created by the pully.

johnnie walker wrote:I dont know if it counts as a whipper because I was climbing a fixed line with the mini triaxon. I fell and shock loaded the rope about 40 feet from the top so not much stretch. I cut the soft spot out of the rope after the fall. armed with this knowledge I would gig a load reducer into the anchor or use a tibloc rather than the mini which would probably reduce the force created by the pully.

Don't use a tibloc for that. You'll die. Or the very least you'll shred the sheath on your rope. It wasn't designed and won't function probably that way. There's a reason most people use the mini traxion. It has faults, but it's the lesser of evils.