Reconstructing knees?

It looks like aside of breaking my hand, I have very thoroughly trashed a knee in a second freak accident (not climbing related) a day after getting the cast on the hand...

Torn ACL and god knows what else. It is trashed and regardless of what else was done I am told I will need reconstruction with a probable 6-12 month recovery period.
I suspect other torn ligaments and torn meniscus, as he leg "flops" on the knee joint. The MRI results will be back next week.

Meanwhile I'd love to hear from anyone about Boulder/Denver area doctors and good/bad experiences withy surgeons & physical therapists.

Anyone who's been through it? Let me know!

I'm sorry about your accident. I am replying to say that a blown acl is not the end of your climbing I have a blown acl and mcl on 1 knee and avidly climb. I have no insurance. If you have insurance I would certainly get surgery this fall.

Read your posts often and its a bummer to have a torn ACL. I had mine torn in 1990 waited 2 months to finish up MBA and day after last final went into surgery. It was supposed to take 2 hours but went into 6 because of a lot more damage done to MCL and extensive meniscus damage that they have to chop out in little sections. I researched the various repair methods at the time and chose to have the patella attachment, because it was stronger and more stable - but with longer rehab then the cadaver attachment. Best Docs were in Porter and I chose a young Turk Doc (Dr. Fujisaki), because they have the newest techniques fresh out of residency. Older Docs have good diagnostic experience, but they never break to learn new techniques, because time is money. You are looking at 3 to 4 weeks post operative recovery where the swelling of the knee goes down. Then you have about 4 to 6 weeks of physical therapy to get your knee to bend at 120 degrees - needed for going down stairs, sitting on the can, etc.. Your leg will shrink in mass during this time and look funny. But then you gradually build it up over the next 6 to 8 months. A full 12 months before both legs were symmetrical and you are 100%. As a side note, I chose a young PT guy who was active and told him to get me back as fast as possible - he did. The only pain during the whole procedure was the bending of the knee PT - he grinned and I cried. Its been 18 years and the knee is still bigger and does not bend that well anymore, because I did run, climb, etc.. But I'm still running 9 to 15 miles per week and climbing. Bottom line look for younger "active" Docs and PT. Had back fused in 2002 and used same criteria - works like a champ. Now I have to get my ankle fixed - getting old sucks.

Tony Bubb wrote:I'd love to hear from anyone about Boulder/Denver area doctors and good/bad experineces withy surgeons & physical therapists. Anyone who's been through it? Let me know!

I assume that you aren't interested in traveling to New York for a knee repair, so therefore I won't place any doctor recommendations.

However, I have had that surgery. ACL torn and both menisci damaged. After surgery, I had a 6 month rehab period. It's best to get it done now so you're all set for the spring climbing season.

But good things can come about with this stuff. For me, having a torn ACL actually got me into the rock gym, where I started belaying. Well...it was a short story after that. I was hooked.

The first hardest part of the surgery are the first 4 weeks after surgery (week 1 you're pretty much bed-ridden), and then if you have menisci damage, you're waiting 3 more weeks before you're allowed to walk on it.

The second hardest part is the last month where you're dying to be allowed to do stuff, but can't.

Best of luck,
Charlie

Get surgery to avoid further damage to meniscus. If you are young (35 or less), and have a fair amount of muscle mass, your hamstring will compensate for the ACL, but eventually if you want to stay active you will need a replacement.

Let them operate, cleanup any meniscus and fix whatever else is wrong. Then go to PT as soon as possible (usually in the first week), and work your ASS off. I was diagnosed with torn ACL at age 45. Went and got surgery last October, 2 years later. My surgery was performed in Steamboat Springs with a cadaver tendon. I was skiing again 6 months later, but the work to get there was not easy.

As for climbing, I think it's easier on the knees than skiing, so... Anyway, good luck!

You will come out fine - just do all the rehab plus more. I have had 5 ACL replacements - 3 on left and 2 on right - competitive skiing didn't fit well with me I guess.

I climbed 5.10 within 2 monts after eac rehab - get it done and keep training. I finally have two great knees that are stronger than the originals - the secret is 2 knees done right by TOSH in SLC, and lots of hamstring work. if your Quads get disproportionally stronger than your hammies - they can actually help in the tearing process.

I had my last one done 12 years ago and no longer ski with a brace, and no arthiritus or scar tissue.
Good luck!

Brian Eagan

Check out Dr. Michael Wertz....
Super solid surgeon, dry bed side manner.

www.orthopro.com

Damn, Tony. Hope you find a good doc and get the necessary repairs.

"Bubb" was told the right thing 6-12 month recovery. I was told healing can take 8 months and then it is pretty much just building the knee supporting muscles and that takes approx. 1 year.

I'm into 7 months and feeling about 75% of normal and just have to build up those knee supporting muscles.

Cycling was the best thing I did for rehab 5-6 weeks out of surgery. Mt. Bike only the Rode Bike was out of the question.

Climbers are folks with a higher than normal pain tolerance so "Tony Bubb" will do just fine!

Wow, someone here has had 5 ACL jobs. In a weird way you are some sort of hero. again wow...5!!!

I suck at being injured and maybe would just give up sport if I had to do it again. 5!!! you still skied after the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th????? Do you lead 5.13X, because that is some mental toughness! I'm torn between wonder and insanity here!

I blew my ACL playing co-ed flag football, after I said I'd quit the team so I could concentrate on triathlons and not get injured, after I rode a 3 hour bike ride, after at the end of which I guy I was riding with said "yeah I quit football because I kept getting injured", after the guys I went to sub for actually showed up and said there was no need for me to play. And after I thought to myself...maybe there are some signs here.

I returned the opening kickoff about 30 yards, cut left to avoid a pretty overweight and slow moving girl, hit a rock hard patch of dirt and my foot slid. Problem was I was already turning my upper body. Nothing against slow and overweight women btw...just adds to the fate aspect of the injury I think...it wasn't Deion Sanders I was outrunning in other words.

Everything said here sounds about right. The first week REALLY sucked. The next 3 were also not fun, but you start to move around more. I did 22 pitches one day (with 3 descents on my ass because I was so worried about another slip) in Cochise 6 months after, but also I took my recovery nice and slow. I worked hard, but didn't do anything too risky the first year. However, I couldn't really properly run until 8 months (more of less) and really it was a year until it felt like a normal leg again. It took another year to truly rebuild the muscle back to the strength of my other leg and forget about it when I did anything active. Physical therapy hurt, but I had a hot PT so it equaled out. The bike was great. I only did the road bike...not sure why you wouldn't be able to do it? I would be more worried on the mtb about planting my foot in a crash or something. Though for a while I wouldn't do clip in pedals or those slippery road shoes. I road inside in the trainer a lot at first. Try to get as much flexibility as you can during PT. Work it hard to get back in shape. You can't just sit around and expect the flexibility to come back and if you let it reheal without getting the range back it is really hard to overcome. Recovery is a lot of work really...PT, exercises at home, biking, time in the pool...etc...

I went with a patella, but hamstrings also sound good nowadays. I wouldn't do a cadaver unless you are over 50. I've heard of them snapping in a few months/years. No thanks. The main drawback to the patella is that your knee is SUPER sensitive to touch afterwards and kneeling is difficult for me still. At least mine is. Then again I don't kneel that much so it doesn't matter. Plus I have another leg to knell on. Climbing my leg feels perfectly fine and except for it being a bit sore after a really long day out...I never think about it anymore.

I had no other damage so I guess I was lucky in that regard. I wore a sports brace for a while, probably from 6-12 months and then lost it in a taxi (I'm still not sure how it got lost). All I know is someone in El Chalten, Argentina is walking around with a $1,200 carbon fiber brace on.

I withdrew my first reply because I reread it and it sounded like I was whining about my own aowie!
There are many great doc's and sports rehab facilities in the Colorado frontrange area and I am sure that you will find a good one.
The best is Stedman/Hawkins clinic in Vail I'm told.
From one wounded warrior to another Best Wishes!
Aloha,Olaf

Stedman/ Hawkins clinic for sure. They did a bunch of my competative ski buddies. Always heard glowing reviews.

I second Stedman/ Hawkins. They are world famous for knees.

"Stedman/ Hawkins"

Funny, Richard Hawkins comes from my small town in Canada. I just had ankle surgery from James Reid and had no problems.

I have to admit, the medical people around here are pretty good ......

Kevin

I live in a ski town, and 80% of the people I know have had an ACL reconstruction. When you live in Jackson Hole, the question is "when" you will have an ACL tear, not "if".

In good hands - both the surgeon's and PT's afterwards - you'll get back to 100% no problem.

I'm having my knee scoped in a couple of weeks by David Grauer. At the minimum, it'll be removal of a piece of cartilage; at the max, microfracture, which I am hoping will not be the case. He gets high marks from many people within the health care community and he's been great to work with so far. I'll let you know how the surgery goes.

Regarding the Stedman/Hawkins clinic, I've heard some less than flattering comments about them, also from within the health care community, despite their reputation.

EDIT: To confirm what Andy said, Dr. Grauer told me to do the surgery early in the fall because one week into ski season and he's booked solid doing ACL's...

My insurance sent me to Dr. John Pak, in Colorado Springs - when I tore my ACL, MCL, and meniscus "casing" an 80-foot table (skiing). Fortunately, he's the team doctor for the U.S. Freestyle Ski Team and was quite familiar with serious knee issues. I can't say enough about how happy I was with the procedure and rehab. He wasn't afraid to let me push the recovery aggressively - when my knee could handle it - and seemed genuinely interested in my progress. I've had many serious injuries from skiing and his office certainly stands out. The good news is that the Front Range has some of the best knee doctors around given the number of serious sports-related injuries they encounter here.

One warning . . . when you get home from surgery and the blocker wears off, be ready with some Percocet + (insert personal favorite(s) here). I've nearly torn my arm off (waited 12+ hours before getting painkiller), shattered my right heel in 16 pieces, had a tooth drilled without painkiller, fractured my skull, etc., and none of that compared to what I felt with the knee after the surgery. I always thought pain had a plateau, and saw what I was feeling as a flaw in the human body. What I'm getting at is this: talk with your doctor ahead of time about how much is safe for you to take in case it gets bad.

Best of luck . . . it's not the end of the world. You can easily come back stronger and more focused after an injury-induced hiatus.

When selecting a surgeon, be sure to ask how many ACL reconstructions the surgeon performs in a typical month. It is a standard operation, but you want a doctor that has performed lots of them because - like everything in life - experience with a particular procedure helps.

We have one doctor in town that performs 10-15 per week in ski season. And has been doing that for 15 years. Seriously. This guy has it down.

I used percoset for the first 24 hours. Then it made me so nauseous that I just switched to Tylenol. I prefered a bit of pain to throwing up. For me it hurt a lot, but wasn't totally unbearable. Sleeping was the hardest thing for the first week. The first week is generally a grin a bear it thing. Get a lot of movies and spend the week before treating your wife like royalty, because after the operation you need a lot of babysitting.

They also give you a machine that moves your leg back and forth for a week...which is pretty strange.

My doc was in DC....Dr. Faulk - highly recommended but obviously a bit far away.

Paul Hunnicutt wrote:I used percoset for the first 24 hours. Then it made me so nauseous that I just switched to Tylenol. I prefered a bit of pain to throwing up. For me it hurt a lot, but wasn't totally unbearable.